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Rolling Stone Article on UVA rape culture

I had a girl tell me that a guy took advantage of her while she was drunk/passed out, but she refused to say who it was. I never hear anybody indicate there was any sort of rape involving physical violence (other than the rape itself, obviously) or any sort of gang-rape.

Just a horrifying story.
 
DirtySouthDeacon said:
Who would want to be friends/brothers with a bunch of guys who gang rape an 18year old at a party. I dont care how cool you "think" some dude is, when he asks you to join his gang rape, you beat his ass. WTF??
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Exactly. The fact that the other guys in that chapter just allowed this to happen without beating the offending dudes asses and kicking them out is sickening. Being a fraternity man it's disgusting to hear stuff like this. I don't know if it's a fraternity issue or an issue that stems from kids thinking they are bigger than life and that they can get away with whatever they wan't but it's appalling.
 
palmab03 said:
Hypothetically speaking, what happens if a bro comes out and confirms what is implied: gang-rape as a pledge initiation at this fraternity?
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I would assume a shitstorm of epic proportion.
 
As a freshman at Wake I was walking from one room in our suite in Davis to another when a girl I know come into the suite hall. She was visibly upset and I asked her what was up. I don't remember exactly what she said but she basically just wanted to chill for a minute and not hang out with the other folks in the room I had just left - so I walked her into one of the back rooms in the suite that was empty and we sat down. I sat with her for a few minutes and she said some things that indicated she was escaping from some situation involving a guy. She didn't tell me any details. This girl was also a freshman and a total hottie who I had a huge crush on. My brain was not working very well just from being in the room with her - it didn't hit me until later that she was probably running from a sexual assault situation - but I never knew for sure and she never mentioned it again. I was nice to her - all the while wishing I could turn the situation into giving myself a chance with her. I never had a chance... After a bit she went on her way...
 
In a very, very small way I can understand the fear these girls have with respect to going public with charges. A friend of mine was attacked and severly beaten by a football player on campus. We reported the incident and the player was charged criminally and on campus. He eventually was convicted and expelled but we had to testify, etc. For the rest of my time on campus the entire football team hated me and would yell at me and threaten me whenever they saw me on campus or out on the town. It was not fun...
 
TheTwinAndreBen said:
Who the fuck says something like "are you worried about tarnishing UVA".

I'm positive that every UVA person I've known (20+ people) has said something along those lines (though obviously not under similar circumstances).

I can assuredly tell you that a rape culture certainly does not exist in Wake greek life, even in the 'top tier' frats.

This, unfortunately, just isn't true.
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I don't think it's as bad as the problem at UVA appears to be, but it's definitely there.
 
tau06 said:
Exactly. The fact that the other guys in that chapter just allowed this to happen without beating the offending dudes asses and kicking them out is sickening. Being a fraternity man it's disgusting to hear stuff like this. I don't know if it's a fraternity issue or an issue that stems from kids thinking they are bigger than life and that they can get away with whatever they wan't but it's appalling.
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It's both. People who think they're larger than live and being in a fraternity gives them the status, backing, location, etc to do it. That's why it's on the fraternities to make sure members aren't abusing the privileges of membership by using fraternity functions, property, and status to enable serial rapists.

A friend of mine who went to Cornell told me about a sorority sister of hers who was raped. She was the little sister of a fraternity and was raped by one of the brothers. My friend and a few others told her to report him, but she didn't want to risk her status with the frat and risk harming her reputation around campus. She eventually ditched her friends who wanted her to report him and stayed involved with the frat.
 
My wife is an er nurse and a sane nurse. You would be shocked what it takes to get someone convicted. The rape victims wait until they mentally break, but physiologically it is too late. My wife comes home crying night after night after fucking night because there is nothing she can do to help the one who is raped. She had taken the stand in trials where she cannot legally say someone has been raped, even though it is clear to everyone in that room. I have sat in on those trial meetings. It is fucked beyond words. I don't cry often, but I have cried in those rooms watching those poor women get no validation by our justice system. So, fuck all you who make jokes because this is real and it is devastating.
 
I know a guy who went to UVA in the early 1990s that participated in a similar scenario. He went on to become a drug using raging alcoholic. After a decade of sobriety, he contacted the girl, no idea how he found or remembered her, and told her he was turning himself into the Charlottesville Police the next day and would verify that every bit of her initial accusation was accurate. He's spending four years in prison. If not sure if his decision to contact her and let her know did more harm than any possible good.

Absolutely nothing about the mentality surrounding rape makes sense to me.
 
That sounds very similar to the situation from the 80s mentioned in the article.
 
I was/am good friends with a girl at Wake who was involved in the councling of female sexual assault victims (while she was an undergrad). Obvioulsy, she had to keep this stuff confidential, but lets just say her schedule was always full. I have had many discussions with her over the years and she has never mentioned any thing like the gang rape at UVA (thankfully). Honestly, she never mentioned any "traditional" rape scenarios. Just a whole lot of "date" and "drunk" rape. It def happened at Wake and the majority was councling and not prosecution. However, if you think back to guys mysteriously disappearing for a semester and then returning, you may be on to something.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
#TABwilldefend
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Deadbolt said:
Why not? Football teams, Frats, actual street gangs...impressionable young men who are easily influenced become monsters to prove their loyalty, no matter who they have to destroy to get there...that's pretty much exactly how this works, isn't it?
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I am not defending, I'm saying its crazy and hard to believe. And my point is that kid in one of these frats at UVA not only had to reach certain competencies to get there, but then also had to be socially competent enough to join a 'respected' group, is a little more refined than your typical HS football player or a member of a street gang. That is why its more shocking. I have no idea what happened in this case, it sure sounds awful.

I will attack the idea that frats inherently create a rape culture, and I will reiterate that it was definitely not the case at WFU in my time there.
 
Did anyone ever go to the event held by PREPARE where they would anonymously read the letters of rape victims? (Not sure if it was an annual thing or just one time.) Or Take Back the Night events on campus where victims spoke? It may not be as bad, but it definitely happens at Wake.

As for those that say they would have run those guys out of the frat, I'm guessing the story the brothers heard was much different than the one told by the victim. (Namely, that she was into it.)
 
Lots of yankees and lacrosse players at UVa. That's the problem.

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TheTwinAndreBen said:
I am not defending, I'm saying its crazy and hard to believe. And my point is that kid in one of these frats at UVA not only had to reach certain competencies to get there, but then also had to be socially competent enough to join a 'respected' group, is a little more refined than your typical HS football player or a member of a street gang. That is why its more shocking. I have no idea what happened in this case, it sure sounds awful.

I will attack the idea that frats inherently create a rape culture, and I will reiterate that it was definitely not the case at WFU in my time there.
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A secretive group of wealthy, privileged white teenage males, whose top two topics of conversation are females and alcohol doesn't inherently create a rape culture? I don't think frats turn otherwise good people into rapists. I do think that frats create the type of environment where serial rapists can get away with whatever they want.

And it definitely happened more frequently than you realize in your time at Wake (unless you were there before '02 as I can't speak to that). It's not like a serial rapist would come into chapter and tell everyone "hey i raped some chick this weekend. Sweet right?" But it does make you wonder how many of the hookup stories you heard from your bros might have actually been something else going on.

My fraternity had around 60 guys in it. I knew most of them very well, but I did not know all of them well enough to definitively say that this never happened at my fraternity. Looking back there are several situations I witnessed or heard about that I wish I had looked into further.
 
Rape culture goes well beyond the culture of campus or fraternities.

And I'm sure girls have never been raped at a dorm party
 
Go said:
Rape culture goes well beyond the culture of campus or fraternities.

And I'm sure girls have never been raped at a dorm party
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Eh, just because rape happens in other contexts doesn't mean that fraternity culture doesn't encourage drunk rape.
 
TexasDeac10 said:
Eh, just because rape happens in other contexts doesn't mean that fraternity culture doesn't encourage drunk rape.
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Fraternity culture also enables rape, and it covers up rape. I don't think either of those points are up for debate.
 
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