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Roughly 3 weeks into Trump as PEOTUS...

How anyone can watch an interview with trump and come away feeling like he is shrewd and cunning and calculating is beyond me. Posters on this board are more articulate and informed on matters not only of government, but of business. He is glaringly out of his depth, and comes off amateurish and petulant.
 
How anyone can watch an interview with trump and come away feeling like he is shrewd and cunning and calculating is beyond me. Posters on this board are more articulate and informed on matters not only of government, but of business. He is glaringly out of his depth, and comes off amateurish and petulant.

But....but....
 
Again, Knowell, would you be defending Obama if he'd done this?

I would be amazed. If Obama started convincing factories to stay in the US before he were inaugurated, I would have to say that he was off to an amazing start. I would certainly be shocked if Obama decided to negotiate foreign affairs from a position of strength instead of the usual kowtowing, but sure, I would be pleased with the change.
 
How anyone can watch an interview with trump and come away feeling like he is shrewd and cunning and calculating is beyond me. Posters on this board are more articulate and informed on matters not only of government, but of business. He is glaringly out of his depth, and comes off amateurish and petulant.

I agree that he comes across pretty poorly. Obama comes across much much better. It is hard to look at Trump and think this is a shining example of what we want the world to see as the best of us.

On the other hand, getting results has its positives as well.
 
Carrier and Taiwan are examples of a president elect fumbling around in the dark and tripping over himself, and board conservatives who claim to have not voted for him plastering a nervous smile on their faces and trying to be cool and calm about the certain shitpile ahead, emblazoned with their R.

If that is the case, Trump is great at fumbling around in the dark.
 
Who gives a fuck whether it will "play" well or not? What matters is how that call impacted the way China sees the US under a Trump presidency. Trump just wasted valuable political capital with the Chinese over an unforced error. That move might not mean anything today but it will when we actually need China's help in the region (i.e. North Korea).

Don't be so afraid. The Chinese need our consumers even more than we need their products. No need to tip toe around their insecurities.
 
How anyone can watch an interview with trump and come away feeling like he is shrewd and cunning and calculating is beyond me. Posters on this board are more articulate and informed on matters not only of government, but of business. He is glaringly out of his depth, and comes off amateurish and petulant.

I think I actually disagree with this. I obviously think Trump is a disaster and will only get worse with respect to my objectives for the US and our government, but that is really the key isn't it, 'my objectives.' Trump and his supporters have an entirely different set of objectives than I do and his/theirs methods of achieving those objectives are entirely different as well. Lots of us liberals ridiculed him for his antics during the campaign, but as BSF pointed out, Trump was playing a different game and was winning, somehow without many of us even knowing. There may very well be calculations to these seemingly idiotic moves like talking to the Pakistani prime minister or the Taiwanese president. Right now, I'd guess something like, sticking it to the Chinese on this minor issue is further solidifying his support among his base so that when he pushes through more tax cuts for himself and his rich friends, the same tired old economic planing the GOP has recycled since at least the 80's, none of his supporters will notice cause they are so pumped up that he is putting the Chinese in their place. Think about it, us liberals are freaking out over a phone call and meanwhile Jeff Sessions is probably coasting to confirmation.
 
Carrier and Taiwan are examples of a president elect fumbling around in the dark and tripping over himself, and board conservatives who claim to have not voted for him plastering a nervous smile on their faces and trying to be cool and calm about the certain shitpile ahead, emblazoned with their R.

You're having more trouble than you should with a relatively simple concept. I know the nerves are raw, but with time you will be able to see what's going on here. It is clear that now is not this time.

My brand of conservatism (and 16 others) lost to Donald Trump last Spring. I've had a little more time to process my particular repudiation; yours is still fresh. Again, I think you'll get there. In the interim, just allow for the possibility that you're not going to be able to keep amputating entire blocks of the electorate, taking losses (how many are left to take at this point? The House? The Senate? E-Branch? They gone) and blaming anybody but yourself. Deploy the mirror. There's a reason people are tuning your other good ideas out. Solve for X. Hint: it's not always the other guy's fault/ignorance/raciosm/rubishness/deplorability.
 
When the Pubs lost in 2008 and 2012, I went through a similar phase. I sort of assumed that the electorate fell for Santa Claus promises of free health care, empty promises about green energy and infrastructure and the sweet, sweet ambiguity of hope/change. Smarter people than I figured out a way to expand the much maligned shrinking tent of the GOP to include the poor white people Dems turned their noses up at. E-you guys. You can only insult vast swaths of the country with three consecutive nominees ("Stuck in Iraq"; "Bitter clingers", "Basket of deplorables") before it catches up with you. Again, y'all only have yourselves to blame. Don't make up boogie men about fake news, rubishness and pizza. This one is squarely on you. What are you going to do about it?
 
I would be amazed. If Obama started convincing factories to stay in the US before he were inaugurated, I would have to say that he was off to an amazing start. I would certainly be shocked if Obama decided to negotiate foreign affairs from a position of strength instead of the usual kowtowing, but sure, I would be pleased with the change.

Is paying off companies to keep some jobs here really "convincing" them to stay here? The second that check clears those jobs are gone also.

"Hey Carrier CEO, it's the Trump, I need you to keep 800 of those jobs here in the US, so in return your Governor my VP is going to kick you 7 mil in taxpayer dollars to stay around for a year or two. NSA"

Not a tough sell.
 
You're having more trouble than you should with a relatively simple concept. I know the nerves are raw, but with time you will be able to see what's going on here. It is clear that now is not this time.

My brand of conservatism (and 16 others) lost to Donald Trump last Spring. I've had a little more time to process my particular repudiation; yours is still fresh. Again, I think you'll get there. In the interim, just allow for the possibility that you're not going to be able to keep amputating entire blocks of the electorate, taking losses (how many are left to take at this point? The House? The Senate? E-Branch? They gone) and blaming anybody but yourself. Deploy the mirror. There's a reason people are tuning your other good ideas out. Solve for X. Hint: it's not always the other guy's fault/ignorance/raciosm/rubishness/deplorability.

I mean, hell, we have folks on here blaming Jill Stein's 0-1% of the vote when the same people were crowing about landslide victories for Clinton a month prior. jhmd is right, board left. Whether or not you're willing to hear what he has to say is probably the difference between 8 years of a Mike Pence presidency (think about that one) and a politician in the White House in 2020.
 
I would be amazed. If Obama started convincing factories to stay in the US before he were inaugurated, I would have to say that he was off to an amazing start. I would certainly be shocked if Obama decided to negotiate foreign affairs from a position of strength instead of the usual kowtowing, but sure, I would be pleased with the change.

You mean like how Obama fought for the stimulus to create over a MILLION jobs versus Trump paying ransom to temporarily save 800?

Do you mean how Obama saved the US auto industry versus Trump and the GOP wanting to let it go bankrupt and losing over a MILLION jobs directly and over 100,000 in spinoff jobs?

You mean like how Obama "kowtowed" Russia and put in sanctions that have crippled their economy?

Or how Obama negotiated for massive sanctions against Iran that led to a deal that will keep them from having nukes for at least a generation versus having them by now? Yep, that sure was kowtowing?
 
I mean, hell, we have folks on here blaming Jill Stein's 0-1% of the vote when the same people were crowing about landslide victories for Clinton a month prior. jhmd is right, board left. Whether or not you're willing to hear what he has to say is probably the difference between 8 years of a Mike Pence presidency (think about that one) and a politician in the White House in 2020.

I'm hopeful that General Mattis gets the waiver he needs, gets confirmed into an amazing 36 month term as SecDef, and then primaries his Boss. I'm on Team #MADDOG2020
 
"If BO had been doing the same things as DT, how would right wingers react?"

Doing what, exactly? Not trying to dodge. Be specific and I will take a shot.

Let's start with the "3 million illegal votes claim or he would have won the general election also." If Romney won the popular vote, but Obama won the electoral vote, then claimed the popular vote meant nothing because the system was rigged against him and included illegal votes, without proof, and claimed he had a mandate, would that bother you?

Next, I'd go to Bannon's appointment. If Obama appointed say Reverend Wright or Al Sharpton as his closest confidant, would that bother you?

I appreciate your willingness to try and have a discussion just fyi.
 
Let's start with the "3 million illegal votes claim or he would have won the general election also."

If Romney won the popular vote, but Obama won the electoral vote, then claimed the popular vote meant nothing because the system was rigged against him and included illegal votes, without proof, and claimed he had a mandate. Would that bother you?

Next, I'd go to Bannon's appointment. If Obama appointed say Reverend Wright or Al Sharpton as his closest confidant, would that bother you?

I appreciate your willingness to try and have a discussion just fyi.

On these two things, the whining about the irrelevant popular vote is disappointing but not terribly surprising. I'm pretty low expectations on DJT and unfortunately, that behavior lives down to them.

What little I know about Bannon (which isn't much; feel free to highlight something specific and I'll be glad to comment) doesn't bother me. I don't know enough about him to think this is world war XI, and to be completely honest, if I had to stop my day and investigate every time a left-leaning person cries raciosm, I'd never get anything done. I like the car alarm analogy for the left's cries of raciosm: when was the last time you heard a car alarm go off and actually though a car was being stolen? I'm not sure I've met a conservative in my life who hasn't been called a racist. That knife is a dull. If this guy actually is a racist, I'll be happy to consider the evidence thereof, but I stopped listening to the incessant accusations on that front from the left years ago. That smear is too often deployed (ironically enough) indiscriminately against conservatives to have any value at this point to me.

To answer your hypothetical, if President Obama appointed Rev. Wright as his closest confidant, I'm sure it would bother me. That's because there's a videotape of Rev. Wright invoking his Creator's ability to damn the country. If he appointed Al Sharpton, I would also be concerned because there isn't much about Al Sharpton that is left to the imagination. The man has made a lucrative career out of dividing people and inflaming passions. I don't know that Bannon is anywhere close to that standard, but again, post something objective and I'll be glad to consider it.
 
:thumbsup: (start from the bottom and read up)

miBZar.png
 
You're having more trouble than you should with a relatively simple concept. I know the nerves are raw, but with time you will be able to see what's going on here. It is clear that now is not this time.

My brand of conservatism (and 16 others) lost to Donald Trump last Spring. I've had a little more time to process my particular repudiation; yours is still fresh. Again, I think you'll get there. In the interim, just allow for the possibility that you're not going to be able to keep amputating entire blocks of the electorate, taking losses (how many are left to take at this point? The House? The Senate? E-Branch? They gone) and blaming anybody but yourself. Deploy the mirror. There's a reason people are tuning your other good ideas out. Solve for X. Hint: it's not always the other guy's fault/ignorance/raciosm/rubishness/deplorability.

You are still talking politics. The election is over, now I'm talking about competent governing. Two different things. You keep misinterpreting my anxiety for political wins and losses, and I have moved on to scrutiny of the new guard. I'm not lamenting the loss of the race, im lamenting the loss of reason, preparation, and steadiness in the highest office.
 
Bannon is far worse than Rev. Wright or Sharpton. Bannon ran the pre-eminent website that gives a platform and credibility to the alt-right, white supremacists and outrageous/unfounded, BS conspiracy theories.

His being Chief Advisor to the POTUS makes all those assholes think they have the POTUS' ear and that in some ways he supports those beliefs.

It's inconceivable to have Bannon or anyone like him in the WH much less having such an important position.
 
On these two things, the whining about the irrelevant popular vote is disappointing but not terribly surprising. I'm pretty low expectations on DJT and unfortunately, that behavior lives down to them.

What little I know about Bannon (which isn't much; feel free to highlight something specific and I'll be glad to comment) doesn't bother me. I don't know enough about him to think this is world war XI, and to be completely honest, if I had to stop my day and investigate every time a left-leaning person cries raciosm, I'd never get anything done. I like the car alarm analogy for the left's cries of raciosm: when was the last time you heard a car alarm go off and actually though a car was being stolen? I'm not sure I've met a conservative in my life who hasn't been called a racist. That knife is a dull. If this guy actually is a racist, I'll be happy to consider the evidence thereof, but I stopped listening to the incessant accusations on that front from the left years ago. That smear is too often deployed (ironically enough) indiscriminately against conservatives to have any value at this point to me.

To answer your hypothetical, if President Obama appointed Rev. Wright as his closest confidant, I'm sure it would bother me. That's because there's a videotape of Rev. Wright invoking his Creator's ability to damn the country. If he appointed Al Sharpton, I would also be concerned because there isn't much about Al Sharpton that is left to the imagination. The man has made a lucrative career out of dividing people and inflaming passions. I don't know that Bannon is anywhere close to that standard, but again, post something objective and I'll be glad to consider it.

I think his ideology is more nationalistic, anti-not white European, anti-not Christian. When I think racism, I think white guy doesn't like black guy and vice-versa. So to just call him a racist is part of his mindset but not all of it.

Here's an article about the types of people he had on as guests regularly to his talk show on Breitbart:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/anti-muslim-hate-groups-steve-bannon_us_582b1cf0e4b0c4b63b0e70c3

It is admittedly hard to not find only sensationalized media about this guy, so this might be the most objective piece I could find.
 
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