• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread

Surprised there hasn't been any comments about Rickie Fowler getting engaged.
Especially from all the pole vault fans.
 
Backstopping is only "illegal" if the player not marking their ball and the player receiving the "help" are in agreement to do so.

Not sure why there isn't more discussion about the other side of the argument, but I assume it's because most media folks don't play serious golf tournaments that often. The real issue is that the odds of hitting a golf ball on a green in such a way that it helps you are extremely small. The odds that you piss someone off as they prepare to hit a shot and you interrupt them by going out to mark your ball is massively more likely than you actually helping them by leaving it there. Etiquette-wise, when it's your shot it's like your time, nobody is supposed to fuck with you, and it's really frowned upon when you do. I've seen a near fist-fight because a guy was about to chip and a younger player ran up and marked his ball just before his backswing.

So yeah, if your ball is in a particularly helpful spot and you have enough time not to interrupt your opponent, you *should* mark. But you don't have to. Hell if you're on the green and another player is hurrying to putt you're not supposed to move to mark your ball. Happens all the time. I don't really see it as protecting the field to any significant degree because there are so many situations where a player can't mark or doesn't have time to.
 
DCDeac said:
Backstopping is only "illegal" if the player not marking their ball and the player receiving the "help" are in agreement to do so.

Not sure why there isn't more discussion about the other side of the argument, but I assume it's because most media folks don't play serious golf tournaments that often. The real issue is that the odds of hitting a golf ball on a green in such a way that it helps you are extremely small. The odds that you piss someone off as they prepare to hit a shot and you interrupt them by going out to mark your ball is massively more likely than you actually helping them by leaving it there. Etiquette-wise, when it's your shot it's like your time, nobody is supposed to fuck with you, and it's really frowned upon when you do. I've seen a near fist-fight because a guy was about to chip and a younger player ran up and marked his ball just before his backswing.

So yeah, if your ball is in a particularly helpful spot and you have enough time not to interrupt your opponent, you *should* mark. But you don't have to. Hell if you're on the green and another player is hurrying to putt you're not supposed to move to mark your ball. Happens all the time. I don't really see it as protecting the field to any significant degree because there are so many situations where a player can't mark or doesn't have time to.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we aren't talking about a kid running up to mark a ball in the middle of someone's swing. We are talking about pro golfers purposefully leaving the ball in a helpful position to another player. We are also talking about when a pro golfer asks the other golfer if he should leave the ball. We are also talking about making sure to mark your ball when you don't like the other golfer you may be assisting. The debate has been going on, but Jimmy Walker's tweets really set it off. Not sure you saw it. I don't think someone "fucking with you" is really high on the discussion list here.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/ji...dmission-sparks-heated-debate-on-golf-twitter
 
Just to add my two cents to this debate, I am someone who has played their fair share of junior golf, never was that great, but played in a few state am's and such. I never would have even considered not marking my ball in that scenario. The goal in any tournament is to beat anyone else in the field, I find it crazy that Walker would be trying to help other players out, even if they are friends. I'd have no problem tossing players out if they were caught blatantly doing that moving forward.
 
mikedrum4prez said:
Just to add my two cents to this debate, I am someone who has played their fair share of junior golf, never was that great, but played in a few state am's and such. I never would have even considered not marking my ball in that scenario. The goal in any tournament is to beat anyone else in the field, I find it crazy that Walker would be trying to help other players out, even if they are friends. I'd have no problem tossing players out if they were caught blatantly doing that moving forward.
Click to expand...

yeah, maybe this is a thing the mid-tier pros do who are just trying to make their cut, collect their check and move on to next week
 
deacondamo said:
Yeah, we aren't talking about a kid running up to mark a ball in the middle of someone's swing. We are talking about pro golfers purposefully leaving the ball in a helpful position to another player. We are also talking about when a pro golfer asks the other golfer if he should leave the ball. We are also talking about making sure to mark your ball when you don't like the other golfer you may be assisting. The debate has been going on, but Jimmy Walker's tweets really set it off. Not sure you saw it. I don't think someone "fucking with you" is really high on the discussion list here.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/ji...dmission-sparks-heated-debate-on-golf-twitter
Click to expand...

No, that's exactly what this is about. Walker was nonchalant about it because it happens all the time. Your ball is on the green, maybe if another player hit it it'd help them, but no, you don't go hustling up there to mark it just to "protect the field" every time interrupting the flow of play. If you did that you'd infuriate players, or at the very least you're the class tattle-tale everyone hates. The line Walker stoked actual controversy with was the one about asking players, since if the players were agreeing not to mark that's a violation. But players say that all the time - "want me to mark that? No, I'm good. Ok." Sure, there are times when you have an extremely short chip and a particularly well-placed ball where there's lots of time and it seems egregious. The media is scouring through millions of golf shots right now to find examples of those. And of the few they find how any actually hit the ball and get a significant bump? They keep showing the Finau shot, a fluke buried bunker lie, and the other one that hit twitter despite the ball not even hitting the backstopping ball.

It's just a complete non-issue. If it matters, change the rule from "may mark" to "must mark" and the issue is over. And it won't change anything. This is just a sport dying for controversy near a major salivating that they found a headline. Plus some crotchety old man griping mixed in.
 
except in this case it wasn't just "helping the flow" it was "i do it specifically to help other players"
 
Interesting. I had no idea about backstopping. My first reaction was who cares, but after reading various comments I understand the debate.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
except in this case it wasn't just "helping the flow" it was "i do it specifically to help other players"
Click to expand...

I don't really get this argument, primarily because it simply doesn't matter. If my ball is in a bunker near my opponent's ball, maybe I mark it. Did I mark it so he wouldn't be distracted? So I could replace the ball before my shot? So his shot wouldn't potentially throw more sand on my ball? Who cares, the rule is I can mark it.

It can be gamesmanship to interrupt a quick player by slowly wandering on the green and marking a ball with almost no chance of getting hit. Another thing I see is slow players making other players request that you mark your ball on longer shots where it wouldn't help but could hurt. In this case Walker's admitting he's being a nice guy, but the act is the same. All of it is within the rules so it makes no difference what the intent is.

Secondly, why are people surprised players would help some guys and not others? You think if Spieth and Thomas are playing together they're not looking extra hard for any lost balls, helping each other with questions about the course, giving the other guy time to watch a putt if it's on the same line? No doubt they are. You think Ben Crane and Billy Horschel would do each other any such favors? Hell no. That's just how golf works.

Of course if someone has an 8 foot chip they're trying to make and there's a ball 2 inches from the cup, that's bullshit. But it basically never happens 99.9% of the time it's attempted it makes no difference. The fact that they have to use the Finau shot as the ultimate example is plenty telling.

If they're going to start messing with rules on the greens regarding marking, how about some standards for the actual marks. Can't stand people using these giant frisbees and poker chips and other huge nonsense that have to be moved farther and more often for putts...
 
DCDeac said:
I don't really get this argument, primarily because it simply doesn't matter. If my ball is in a bunker near my opponent's ball, maybe I mark it. Did I mark it so he wouldn't be distracted? So I could replace the ball before my shot? So his shot wouldn't potentially throw more sand on my ball? Who cares, the rule is I can mark it.

It can be gamesmanship to interrupt a quick player by slowly wandering on the green and marking a ball with almost no chance of getting hit. Another thing I see is slow players making other players request that you mark your ball on longer shots where it wouldn't help but could hurt. In this case Walker's admitting he's being a nice guy, but the act is the same. All of it is within the rules so it makes no difference what the intent is.

Secondly, why are people surprised players would help some guys and not others? You think if Spieth and Thomas are playing together they're not looking extra hard for any lost balls, helping each other with questions about the course, giving the other guy time to watch a putt if it's on the same line? No doubt they are. You think Ben Crane and Billy Horschel would do each other any such favors? Hell no. That's just how golf works.

Of course if someone has an 8 foot chip they're trying to make and there's a ball 2 inches from the cup, that's bullshit. But it basically never happens 99.9% of the time it's attempted it makes no difference. The fact that they have to use the Finau shot as the ultimate example is plenty telling.

If they're going to start messing with rules on the greens regarding marking, how about some standards for the actual marks. Can't stand people using these giant frisbees and poker chips and other huge nonsense that have to be moved farther and more often for putts...
Click to expand...

you're just pointing out that it's hard to prove, which is true but seems silly in this case because he actually admitted to doing it to benefit other players (not to mention other players do it at their whim to benefit players)

again, i think this is a thing that the mid-low tier regulars do for each other because they know they're not winning but want those made-cuts/paycheck
 
ImTheCaptain said:
you're just pointing out that it's hard to prove, which is true but seems silly in this case because he actually admitted to doing it to benefit other players (not to mention other players do it at their whim to benefit players)

again, i think this is a thing that the mid-low tier regulars do for each other because they know they're not winning but want those made-cuts/paycheck
Click to expand...

I think there's some misunderstanding here. There's nothing illegal about Jimmy Walker not marking his ball on the green even if he announces to the entire world that it's to help the other player.
 
DCDeac said:
I don't really get this argument, primarily because it simply doesn't matter. If my ball is in a bunker near my opponent's ball, maybe I mark it. Did I mark it so he wouldn't be distracted? So I could replace the ball before my shot? So his shot wouldn't potentially throw more sand on my ball? Who cares, the rule is I can mark it.

It can be gamesmanship to interrupt a quick player by slowly wandering on the green and marking a ball with almost no chance of getting hit. Another thing I see is slow players making other players request that you mark your ball on longer shots where it wouldn't help but could hurt. In this case Walker's admitting he's being a nice guy, but the act is the same. All of it is within the rules so it makes no difference what the intent is.

Secondly, why are people surprised players would help some guys and not others? You think if Spieth and Thomas are playing together they're not looking extra hard for any lost balls, helping each other with questions about the course, giving the other guy time to watch a putt if it's on the same line? No doubt they are. You think Ben Crane and Billy Horschel would do each other any such favors? Hell no. That's just how golf works.

Of course if someone has an 8 foot chip they're trying to make and there's a ball 2 inches from the cup, that's bullshit. But it basically never happens 99.9% of the time it's attempted it makes no difference. The fact that they have to use the Finau shot as the ultimate example is plenty telling.

If they're going to start messing with rules on the greens regarding marking, how about some standards for the actual marks. Can't stand people using these giant frisbees and poker chips and other huge nonsense that have to be moved farther and more often for putts...
Click to expand...

Rule 20-1 actually says that the ball should be marked “with a small coin or other similar object”, but there is no penalty for using something different. You will never see a Tour player mark his ball with anything other than a coin or some other small, flat disc.
 
DCDeac said:
I think there's some misunderstanding here. There's nothing illegal about Jimmy Walker not marking his ball on the green even if he announces to the entire world that it's to help the other player.
Click to expand...

there's no a rule in the book about helping other players?
 
ImTheCaptain said:
there's no a rule in the book about helping other players?
Click to expand...

Not in this case. If the players discuss/agree together to do it, that's a penalty.

There are lots of near-miss things like this. Really popular one is when you're playing with a few guys in your group, you dislike one but not the other. You can't ask "what iron should I hit" because it's seeking advice. But if I go long I might point the clubhead towards my buddy for a nice long look to know I was over with 7 iron. Or maybe I like everyone and I say "how'd a 7 iron go long?!" as kind of a friendly warning. If I dislike the guy I keep my mouth shut and make sure he can't see the club.

When Walker says some guys "run up the green to mark" it's just him saying some guys are pricks. If you've ever played against one of these guys, particularly in match play, where they just routinely do shitty things to mess with you - then it might make more sense that to err towards occasionally helping someone out instead of being that kind of guy is how a lot of guys think the game should be played.
 
There’s been a trend during the last few Opens of winners being a few strokes under par to significantly under par, including Koepka last year at 16 under. That’s a John Deere Classic score, not US Open. I have not had a chance to watch any of it today, but it would not surprise me if the USGA really put some teeth into Shinnecock in the course set-up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top