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Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread

PhDeac said:
And showing how easy it is to harm established American institutions.

Good thing they’re only targeting elite US culture. If they really wanted to do some damage, they’d throw a billion toward college football NIL or to fund a SEC-league breakaway league. See how quickly concerns about universities taking foreign money would go away.
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I like the SEC league breakaway league concept.
 
donaldross said:
If your position is that LIV, ought, in its opening event have a superior field to the Canadian Open (a fairly typical event), you are correct that they will not.

But here is the link the Canadian Open field: https://www.pgatour.com/tournaments/rbc-canadian-open/field.html


I’d say the LIV event is behind slightly. Stupid money goes a long way. Of course, if the money ends, it will end. But given that they just saved 800 million from going to Tiger my guess is it will be at least a decade before that happens.
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Money isn't everything. Legacy, reputation, history, respect - all have value.
 
FWIW, seems like the USGA is not going to take any action with respect to the players who jumped to the LIV Tour, but had already qualified for this year's US Open. Guessing that they will wait until their OWGR drops to the point that they aren't eligible to play. That said. LIV has heavily invested in the Asian Tour, which will likely allow LIV players to earn OWGR points by playing on that tour.
 
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scooter84 said:
Money isn't everything. Legacy, reputation, history, respect - all have value.
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Now you are voicing the real reason folks aren’t in favor of this.

This is not how it has always been. And it’s not respectful to your friends running the US PGA. And our US fans want to watch US golf in our time zones. That’s how Jay Haas and most of folks at a place like Wake Forest view this. No doubt.

Legacy is viewed in the rear view mirror. That view may ultimately be proven correct. Or LIV may be the dominant force in golf in 20 years and the participants now will be viewed as trailblazers. Arnie making the Open what it is. Walter Hagen showing the Bobby Jones of the world that making money playing golf is not evil—the prevailing view at the time.

Time determines legacies. We will certainly see.
 
donaldross said:
Now you are voicing the real reason folks aren’t in favor of this.

This is not how it has always been. And it’s not respectful to your friends running the US PGA. And our US fans want to watch US golf in our time zones. That’s how Jay Haas and most of folks at a place like Wake Forest view this. No doubt.

Legacy is viewed in the rear view mirror. That view may ultimately be proven correct. Or LIV may be the dominant force in golf in 20 years and the participants now will be viewed as trailblazers. Arnie making the Open what it is. Walter Hagen showing the Bobby Jones of the world that making money playing golf is not evil—the prevailing view at the time.

Time determines legacies. We will certainly see.
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And Jack and a couple others splitting from the old PGA in 1968, hiring their own director/Commissioner/marketer because of all the restrictions they were previously under. And Arnie not wanting to do it because he was loyal at the time, making great money, yet chafed like shit when he first turned pro and had to play for free as a 6 month PGA apprentice (which were the rules of the time). Imagine that, having to travel, play and pay your own expenses yet earn no money! Made a little at his first Masters when he made the cut because it was not considered an “official” event.

So now these young guys with kids like the LIV because they can get more guaranteed money, not have to be gone from home as much, nor play as many weeks. Sounds like a good gig to me. Being independent contractors, don’t see how the PGA will win this battle against the players plus the guys with major exemptions will get to keep playing in them.
 
donaldross said:
Now you are voicing the real reason folks aren’t in favor of this.

This is not how it has always been. And it’s not respectful to your friends running the US PGA. And our US fans want to watch US golf in our time zones. That’s how Jay Haas and most of folks at a place like Wake Forest view this. No doubt.

Legacy is viewed in the rear view mirror. That view may ultimately be proven correct. Or LIV may be the dominant force in golf in 20 years and the participants now will be viewed as trailblazers. Arnie making the Open what it is. Walter Hagen showing the Bobby Jones of the world that making money playing golf is not evil—the prevailing view at the time.

Time determines legacies. We will certainly see.
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So you think there is a chance that in 20 years the LIV will be the dominant force in golf - so the Players and the majors will be insignificant? The whole culture of charitable contributions to PGA cities around PGA events will have dried up? All the important golfers will be playing for the Saudis?

As you say, we shall see. Let me know when you are in Cary and we'll hit up the P'Wood - I'll be generous and give you 5 a side (fewer if you insist on playing the up tees).
 
donaldross said:
If your position is that LIV, ought, in its opening event have a superior field to the Canadian Open (a fairly typical event), you are correct that they will not.

But here is the link the Canadian Open field: https://www.pgatour.com/tournaments/rbc-canadian-open/field.html


I’d say the LIV event is behind slightly. Stupid money goes a long way. Of course, if the money ends, it will end. But given that they just saved 800 million from going to Tiger my guess is it will be at least a decade before that happens.
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Ok now I think you're just not being serious and trying to goad an argument from posters for the fun of it. I guess the whipper snappers call that trolling. There's no way in this world you believe that bold part.
 
TheReff said:
And Jack and a couple others splitting from the old PGA in 1968, hiring their own director/Commissioner/marketer because of all the restrictions they were previously under. And Arnie not wanting to do it because he was loyal at the time, making great money, yet chafed like shit when he first turned pro and had to play for free as a 6 month PGA apprentice (which were the rules of the time). Imagine that, having to travel, play and pay your own expenses yet earn no money! Made a little at his first Masters when he made the cut because it was not considered an “official” event.

So now these young guys with kids like the LIV because they can get more guaranteed money, not have to be gone from home as much, nor play as many weeks. Sounds like a good gig to me. Being independent contractors, don’t see how the PGA will win this battle against the players plus the guys with major exemptions will get to keep playing in them.
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Oh it is a good gig. No question. While it lasts. And they will no longer be a part of golf that matters. Great paycheck for basically just playing weekend golf at the local club. So its just a choice and that's up to the player. End your golf career essentially in terms of ever really mattering again what you do on the golf course, or make just several million and play golf where it matters. I mean that is the choice. And I dont think anyone argues that.
 
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I wonder what they paid Greg Norman to pretend like he thinks this will work? I dont think Ive ever seen that. I guess he got Jack's $100M.
 
The Saudis have $620 billion in the investment fund that feeds the LIV tour. So, they have the capacity to throw money into golf for a long time. That said, don't see the public ever caring about a LIV event. People love the Masters, the US Open and the Open Championship because of the tradition and the courses that host those tournaments. To a lesser extent, there is tradition now at TPC Sawgrass or the Memorial and several other tour stops. There is meaning to winning PGA Events that Jack, Arnie and Tiger won. This LIV event in London seems more akin to the Tiger shootout played in the offseason; really don't care if Graeme McDowell's Niblicks beat Peter Uilein's Crushers for money. Obviously, the infusion of an endless stream of cash is good for the golfers as, in addition to the cash that LIV players are pocketing, the money that Na, Gooch and DJ would've made on the PGA Tour will go to other golfers. We will see if this ends up being good for interest in golf as I don't see the LIV Tour ever catching on and golf was already perceived as an exclusive sport and this will only increase that perception.
 
This whole is a little bit similar to the federal league/mlb dispute back in the 1910s. MLB lost at the trial court - antitrust violations - but the case famously ended up with the Supreme Court recognizing MLB’s antitrust exemption.
 
Oh, the drama!!!

 
FUriwKeWQAIKFkm


No way the tour can withstand this.
 
guitardeac said:
End your golf career essentially in terms of ever really mattering again what you do on the golf course, or make just several million and play golf where it matters. I mean that is the choice. And I dont think anyone argues that.
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We aren't comparing golf majors to the LIV. The majors are bigger obviously. And the LIV players will play in them and win them in the future, heck maybe next week or at St. Andrews.

But do I think the LIV events could be every bit as big as the Quad Cities, the Canadian, and the Wyndham? Of course they have a real shot to do that.

So I am arguing with your premise here.
 
 
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