Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread

[Pilchard]

and likely Mito Pereira after the President's Cup

To me the big news so far is no Hideki or Im. The only current outlet for LIV players to gain OWGR points is the Asian tour, and both those guys are huge stars in Asia. If Hideki plays on LIV, Japan follows that tour. Same with Korea and Im. That said, the LIV motivation is weird under Norman, instead of building a Tour with a world-wide following, seems like he's more focused on doing max damage to the PGAT in the U.S.

Also, a little surprised that Adam Scott didn't join his fellow Aussies. Not sure what happens to the LIV defectors that now aren't in the top 48 as LIV has signed more than 48 golfers now. Guess the alternatives are to play on the Asian Tour or just count their money and beg forgiveness from the PGAT or the DP Tour.

 

[ProbationDeac]

If Monahan was proactive, did something in response to the threat of LIV, and came up with their current plan before the ball got rolling… I think a good number of the players stay and LIV dies before it even begins.

I'll agree the tour should have taken the threat more serious. Ultimately, I am not sure how much it would have mattered in the end. The money many of these guys have gotten just to sign with LIV has been crazy. I just wish these guys that have left for LIV would own up that it's about getting as much money as possible instead of the bull$hit excuses about wanting to play less blah blah blah.

 

[Liquid Karma]

To me the big news so far is no Hideki or Im. The only current outlet for LIV players to gain OWGR points is the Asian tour, and both those guys are huge stars in Asia. If Hideki plays on LIV, Japan follows that tour. Same with Korea and Im. That said, the LIV motivation is weird under Norman, instead of building a Tour with a world-wide following, seems like he's more focused on doing max damage to the PGAT in the U.S.

Also, a little surprised that Adam Scott didn't join his fellow Aussies. Not sure what happens to the LIV defectors that now aren't in the top 48 as LIV has signed more than 48 golfers now. Guess the alternatives are to play on the Asian Tour or just count their money and beg forgiveness from the PGAT or the DP Tour.

Adam Scott still wants to play in and maybe snag another major in his 40s.

 

[Biff Tannen]

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Yes, I guess it is impressive for a "start-up" league to pull that kind of talent, but to me it's a lot more about how many majors do these guys win after joining the LIV tour. So far, in a short sample size albeit, the LIV players haven't really been a factor at all in the majors since LIV started.

 

[Liquid Karma]

It is impressive.

And for most of those guys, their exemptions into most of those majors will run out shortly. DJ, Bryson, Mickelson and Smith are set the next few years. The rest will fade into obscurity and not be missed.

IMO Cam Smith is a big loss. Any young player that has picked off a major plus a starter kit major (the players) is a talent the tour wants to hang onto. Of the players who've left, he and Koepka are the two I enjoyed watching the most.

Nobody is going to miss Tringale, Lahiri, Leishman and Varner. Varner might be the nicest guy around, but nobody tunes in to watch him.

Enjoy the payday and fade into obscurity.

 

[DeaconSig]

At least their wives will be happy.

 

[Liquid Karma]

True. And they won't have to slum it in Greensboro ever again.

 

[Pilchard]

Yes, I guess it is impressive for a "start-up" league to pull that kind of talent, but to me it's a lot more about how many majors do these guys win after joining the LIV tour. So far, in a short sample size albeit, the LIV players haven't really been a factor at all in the majors since LIV started.

People can play games with numbers, but if there was major scheduled this weekend and it included all of the 2021 PGA and LIV players, Cam Smith would be the only one in the top 10 favorites. Here were the pre-tournament odds Open Championship odds in July:

Rory 9-1
Rahm 11-1
Scheffler 12-1
JT 14-1
Morikawa 18-1
Spieth 18-1
Fitzpatrick 20 to 1
Xander 22 to 1
Lowry 22 to 1
Smith 22 to 1


Koepka won a handful of majors, Bryson won a US Open and Mickelson pulled an all-time upset to win the PGAT, but all of those guys are way off form, and wouldn't be favored to win the John Deere at this point. Similarly, Dustin's game has steadily declined since the 2020 Masters. Agree that those guys still have some cache because of their major wins, but until a LIV golfer wins a major, or at least contends, that tour and all players become increasingly irrelevant. Just don't see Johnson, Koepka and Bryson getting back to form playing a few random LIV exhibitions. IMO, the only current LIV player that is a legit threat to win a major in 2023 is Cam Smith.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

It is impressive.

And for most of those guys, their exemptions into most of those majors will run out shortly. DJ, Bryson, Mickelson and Smith are set the next few years. The rest will fade into obscurity and not be missed.

IMO Cam Smith is a big loss. Any young player that has picked off a major plus a starter kit major (the players) is a talent the tour wants to hang onto. Of the players who've left, he and Koepka are the two I enjoyed watching the most.

Nobody is going to miss Tringale, Lahiri, Leishman and Varner. Varner might be the nicest guy around, but nobody tunes in to watch him.

Enjoy the payday and fade into obscurity.

I like Harold Varner and god bless him if he wanted the money, but I've got to think if he never has the chance to play on the PGA tour again and win a PGA tour event, he's going to regret it. Again, small sample size, but the LIV has had 3 events and the winners have been pretty unimpressive. Swartzel was pretty much a one-hit wonder on tour, it's been a good while since Stenson was a top tier PGA tour player and Brandon Grace is a solid player, but not a world beater. Some of these marquee names need to start winning these LIV events I think for there to be a chance of it succeeding long-term.

 

[06deacon]

Is “impressive” really the right term if it takes a literal billion dollars in upfront cash to get guys to switch?

I’d call it impressive if guys were switching without those payments because the LIV tour was actually a better player experience, format, etc. Right now it’s just guys taking no-brainer gobs of cash, and it’s mostly guys people are not going to go out of their way to keep watching (i.e. build a sustainable product for LIV). That’s more “bold move cotton” than “impressive” IMO

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Is “impressive” really the right term if it takes a literal billion dollars in upfront cash to get guys to switch?

I’d call it impressive if guys were switching without those payments because the LIV tour was actually a better player experience, format, etc. Right now it’s just guys taking no-brainer gobs of cash, and it’s mostly guys people are not going to go out of their way to keep watching (i.e. build a sustainable product for LIV). That’s more “bold move cotton” than “impressive” IMO

Good post. Yeah, these guys can talk about how much better they like the format, schedule, blah, blah, blah, but in truth it's the money.

 

[deacz]

Smith is a big get for LIV and loss for PGA Tour. But as with his fellow major winners, he chose the less competitive path for the money. We shall see how that translates into wins or losses in majors.

The rest will be replaced by eager talented players. Golf is incredibly deep, and this may speed the transition to the PGA Tour for some future stars.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Smith is a big get for LIV and loss for PGA Tour. But as with his fellow major winners, he chose the less competitive path for the money. We shall see how that translates into wins or losses in majors.

The rest will be replaced by eager talented players. Golf is incredibly deep, and this may speed the transition to the PGA Tour for some future stars.

I've got nothing against Cam Smith, but I do think of about all of the younger top tier players the PGA tour could've lost, Cam Smith is the least marketable. He's seem like a good guy, but he's not a personality like Spieth or Thomas and not as dynamic as Will or Cam Young.

 

[skinnydeac]

So if 3 players that are ranked in the top 125 in fed ex points leave, do players ranked 126, 127 and 128 keep their tour exemption?

 

[06deacon]

Good post. Yeah, these guys can talk about how much better they like the format, schedule, blah, blah, blah, but in truth it's the money.

so in a year or two when the Saudis get bored with golf and decide to stop lighting money on fire where will the LIV be? Nowhere because it’s otherwise a terrible setup.

They should have hired a younger hungrier head of golf instead of washed up Norman who will be dead in 15 years and invested in on-campus courses.

 

[Pilchard]

So if 3 players that are ranked in the top 125 in fed ex points leave, do players ranked 126, 127 and 128 keep their tour exemption?

I think so. The Korn Ferry Tour Championship is this weekend, and the big thing for that event is players are trying to earn the PGA cards. In the lead up to that tournament, the pgatour.com article mentioned that those may just miss the cut may get in light of the defections to LIV. Timing is key because some players resign from the tour which makes it easier to replace them. Others have not, they just announced they are signing with LIV; so, the PGAT has take the additional step of banning them, before replacing them. The first event for the 2022-23 season is in two weeks; so, not a lot of time to sort it all out.

 

[cville deac]

I've got nothing against Cam Smith, but I do think of about all of the younger top tier players the PGA tour could've lost, Cam Smith is the least marketable. He's seem like a good guy, but he's not a personality like Spieth or Thomas and not as dynamic as Will or Cam Young.

That, and as is the case with most PGA pros, whoever he's dating, I'm sure he's out kicked his coverage. I wonder if she puts a bag over his head when he's night putting.

 

[PhDeac]

Maybe she used to when all he had was trophies. Now he's got that sweet LIV $$$$.

 

[deacz]

I've got nothing against Cam Smith, but I do think of about all of the younger top tier players the PGA tour could've lost, Cam Smith is the least marketable. He's seem like a good guy, but he's not a personality like Spieth or Thomas and not as dynamic as Will or Cam Young.

Agree with this.