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Shooting at an Orlando Gay Night Club

2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Go back and read what I wrote, because apparently it went over your head.
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These clowns get so angry when the shooter fits the very predictable profile they don't want to be the very predictable profile. Self-delusion + evidence = aggression.
 
oh hey, you're back. remember when you posted some suggestions for reducing gun violence?
 
I thought that was comprehensively addressed by that throwaway line about elitism and gun ownership or something.
 
i mean, I thought it was understood that only the best white people should have guns. didn't think it needed to be repeated but live/learn
 
lbE08 said:
I can't, in good conscious, keep someone out of this country based on their personal views and beliefs just because they're different from mine. Trying to equate that to "not giving a fuck" about the LGBTQ community is one of the most asinine things I've read in a while.
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gsi2-chp3-6.png

Trying to pretend allowing millions of people who are this negative about gay people into the country doesn't have a negative impact on members of the lgbt community, which you claim to support, sounds pretty asinine to me.
lbE08 said:
Nobody is saying we should be blind to the different attitudes... but ffs, you don't blanketly deny all of a group from coming here (or limit their ability to come based on their wealth or knowledge).
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I don't see anything wrong with being more selective in who we allow to come here.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
i mean, I thought it was understood that only the best white people should have guns. didn't think it needed to be repeated but live/learn
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If course it is, I just want him to spell it out for us
 
BobStackFan4Life said:
Trying to pretend allowing millions of people who are this negative about gay people into the country doesn't have a negative impact on members of the lgbt community, which you claim to support, sounds pretty asinine to me.

I don't see anything wrong with being more selective in who we allow to come here.
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There are already thousands of people in the US who are that negative about it; that's where we, as a society, get to do something about it and enact the policies that create more protections (and repeal those that are antiquated). Again, I'm not blind to the potential for negativity that comes with that... but it's still not enough justification to actually keep people from coming here, nor does it undermine my support of the LGBTQ community.
 
There are definitely some folks on the left, and on this board, who will go to any level of verbal gymnastics to avoid using the word "Islam" and "terrorism" in the same sentence. I think that's silly. But I also think that the GOP myth that if only Barack Hussein Obama would say the magic words all this would get better is equally ridiculous. I remind everyone of this speech just a few months ago: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/02/03/remarks-president-islamic-society-baltimore
Now, we do have another fact that we have to acknowledge. Even as the overwhelming majority -- and I repeat, the overwhelming majority -- of the world’s Muslims embrace Islam as a source of peace, it is undeniable that a small fraction of Muslims propagate a perverted interpretation of Islam. This is the truth.

Groups like al Qaeda and ISIL, they’re not the first extremists in history to misuse God’s name. We’ve seen it before, across faiths. But right now, there is a organized extremist element that draws selectively from Islamic texts, twists them in an attempt to justify their killing and their terror. They combine it with false claims that America and the West are at war with Islam. And this warped thinking that has found adherents around the world -- including, as we saw, tragically, in Boston and Chattanooga and San Bernardino -- is real. It’s there. And it creates tensions and pressure that disproportionately burden the overwhelming majority of law-abiding Muslim citizens.
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The speech is way too nuanced for most of the right wing, but there is a real strategic, foreign policy issue here. The only people in the world who are killing radical Islamic terrorists at a faster rate than US planes and drones are other Muslims. Our operations against ISIS and other Islamic terrorists depend on the permission and cooperation of other Muslims - the Iraqis, Turks, Saudis, Kurds, non-Taliban Afghanis, etc. Having the President of the United States declare that Islam itself is the problem, or make any statement that could be construed as condemnation of Islam or Muslims as a whole, is not in the best interests of the United States of America. Those kinds of statements could inflame the Muslims who are currently on our side in this thing. We do not need to give the guys running Turkey any excuses to withdraw their permission for our use of their airbases or airspace to project power in the Middle East.

So Obama has to pick his words carefully, and Hilary will do the same. Trump... I'm guessing not so much.
 
Deacon923 said:
There are definitely some folks on the left, and on this board, who will go to any level of verbal gymnastics to avoid using the word "Islam" and "terrorism" in the same sentence. I think that's silly. But I also think that the GOP myth that if only Barack Hussein Obama would say the magic words all this would get better is equally ridiculous. I remind everyone of this speech just a few months ago: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/02/03/remarks-president-islamic-society-baltimore


The speech is way too nuanced for most of the right wing, but there is a real strategic, foreign policy issue here. The only people in the world who are killing radical Islamic terrorists at a faster rate than US planes and drones are other Muslims. Our operations against ISIS and other Islamic terrorists depend on the permission and cooperation of other Muslims - the Iraqis, Turks, Saudis, Kurds, non-Taliban Afghanis, etc. Having the President of the United States declare that Islam itself is the problem, or make any statement that could be construed as condemnation of Islam or Muslims as a whole, is not in the best interests of the United States of America. Those kinds of statements could inflame the Muslims who are currently on our side in this thing. We do not need to give the guys running Turkey any excuses to withdraw their permission for our use of their airbases or airspace to project power in the Middle East.

So Obama has to pick his words carefully, and Hilary will do the same. Trump... I'm guessing not so much.
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Drumpf is probably going to deport Obama to Kenya.

I get the nuance and that we can't say Islam itself is the problem and that we're trying to juggle a bunch of differing interests in the ME, as well as protect the 5 million or so Muslims in this country. And I'm fine with calling it Islamic terrorism. I'm just disappointed that folks distrust/hatred of Muslims is apparently not sufficient to get them to put some reasonable limitations on gun purchases.
 
It makes you wonder what the FBI knew.
A former coworker of the jihadi responsible for the death of at least 49 people in a mass shooting at Orlando’s Pulse LGBT night club says “angry, sweating” Omar Mateen was regularly talking about committing a massacre, but the security firm they both worked for did nothing about it because Mateen was Muslim.
Daniel Gilroy, a former Fort Pierce police officer, worked alongside Matteen at the security firm G4S and told USA Today he had to leave his job because he was uncomfortable with Mateen’s routine hatred and threats of violence. “I quit because everything he said was toxic and the company wouldn’t do anything,” he said. “This guy was unhinged and unstable. He talked of killing people.” Gilroy described Matteen as “homophobic” and racist and an overt concern for the company.

Gilroy also said he complained multiple times to his superiors and was ignored because Mateen “was Muslim.”

Gilroy eventually quit when Mateen became fixated with him, sending up to 30 text messages and 15 voicemails a day.

“I complained multiple times that he was dangerous, that he didn’t like blacks, women, lesbians and Jews,” Gilroy told The Los Angeles Times in a separate interview. “He was always angry, sweating, just angry at the world.” Gilroy added an anecdote that Mateen had once openly wished “he could kill all black people” upon seeing a black man drive past him.

Mateen’s father, a known Taliban sympathizer named Seddique Mateen, confirmed to authorities that Mateen hated LGBT people. He told reporters that, years ago, he recalled Mateen becoming infuriated at the site of a male same-sex couple kissing.

Mateen’s ex-wife Sitora Yusifiy, also told reporters he was an extremely violent person, and she filed for divorce after becoming a victim of routine domestic violence. “He beat me. He would just come home and start beating me up because the laundry wasn’t finished or something like that,” she told the Washington Post.

Despite multiple complaints and an FBI investigation against him, authorities cleared Mateen for a concealed weapons permit in Florida and he continued to work as a security guard for G4S up until this weekend. G4S employs over 600,000 people worldwide and is known to provide security to sensitive venues like oil and gas industrial sites and airports. Mateen cleared the G4S background check twice.

G4S regional chief executive for North America John Kenning issued a statement following the attack: “We are cooperating fully with all law enforcement authorities, including the FBI, as they conduct their investigation. Our thoughts and prayers are with all of the friends, families and people affected by this unspeakable tragedy.”
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http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/06/13/orlando-jihadi-coworker-everything-said-toxic/
 
http://www.vox.com/2016/2/29/11120184/gun-control-study-international-evidence

A recently released study, published in the February issue of Epidemiologic Reviews, seeks to resolve this problem. It systematically reviewed the evidence from around the world on gun laws and gun violence, looking to see if the best studies come to similar conclusions. It is the first such study to look at the international research in this way.

The authors are careful to note that their findings do not conclusively prove that gun restrictions reduce gun deaths. However, they did find a compelling trend whereby new restrictions on gun purchasing and ownership tended to be followed by a decline in gun deaths.

"Across countries, instead of seeing an increase in the homicide rate, we saw a reduction," Julian Santaella-Tenorio, a doctoral student in epidemiology at Columbia University and the study's lead author, told me.
 
So this coworker was afraid the guy was going to commit a violent act, but he never brought it up with the police?

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ImTheCaptain said:
uh, wouldn't the police just call the FBI?
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The coworker knew the FBI was investigating? The police investigation was shut down by the FBI? There are a lot of holes in the co-workers story. A single threatening text message can shut down a whole college town, so i'm a little skeptical that this coworker went to great lengths to report the problem.

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It's not like Breitbart is unbiased, it's pretty obvious they want the government to appear soft on Islamic terrorism.

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Orlando gunman cheered 9/11 attacks, former classmates say
As a teenage high school student in Florida, gay nightclub mass murderer Omar Mateen cheered as terrorists flew jumbo jets into the Twin Towers on 9/11, his former classmates recalled.

Self-proclaimed Islamic State devotee Mateen was a sophomore when the al Qaeda terrorists attacked New York on Sept. 11, 2001 — and classmates vividly recalled his offensive reaction to America’s darkest day, according to the Washington Post.

One former classmate said he was in the same room with Mateen during the 9/11 attacks. While everyone in the classroom was shocked or angered, Mateen was celebrating.

“But Omar was saying some really rude stuff. Stuff like, ‘That’s what America deserves.’ That kind of thing. It wasn’t right,” the former classmate said.

That student also remembers the school sending Mateen home — and the killer’s dad wasn’t pleased about having to pick him up.

“I remember his dad walking up,” the former student said. “And in the courtyard in front of everyone, the kid’s dad slapped him right across the face.”

Robert Zirkle, who was a year behind Mateen, said the man who would commit the second-most deadly act of terror on US soil, killing 49 and wounding 53 others, expressed glee over 9/11 from that point forward.

“He was making plane noises on the bus, acting like he was running into a building,” Zirkle recalled.

“I don’t really know if he was doing it because he was being taught some of that stuff at home or just doing it for attention because he didn’t have a lot of friends.”

The events of 9/11 seemingly changed Mateen from the normal, shy teen he once was.

“Before 9/11 happened, we were pretty straight. We all rode the same bus. We weren’t really close friends, but friends at least a little,” Zirkle said. “After 9/11 happened, he started changing and acting different.”
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http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/orlando-killer-cheered-911-attacks-former-classmates-say/
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
The coworker knew the FBI was investigating? The police investigation was shut down by the FBI? There are a lot of holes in the co-workers story. A single threatening text message can shut down a whole college town, so i'm a little skeptical that this coworker went to great lengths to report the problem.

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The FBI agent on TV yesterday said that they interviewed Mateen's coworkers. So yeah, the Gilroy probably did know the FBI was investigating because he was probably the one interviewed. But keep doing everything you can to avoid blaming the Muslim.
 
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