Shouldn't [Redacted] Show Some Class And...

[Strattocaster]

8 and 2 and improvement (noticeable) across the board. From Cav to CMM...even Andre has made big strides.

Enjoy watching them gel. They are not there yet but I like the outlet passing and commitment to running the ball. For all you say about Buzz, he's no Princeton/ Sendek operator. It is an exciting brand of ball and these guys are becoming a team with or without shitty fans like yourself.

The shitty coach made us shitty fans.

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[DeaconOEF/OIFvet]

Who do you all think could be on RW's "list" for potential HCs?

I can't imagine we'd be shooting for a Greg Marshall, Buzz Williams, or Shaka Smart at this point...

Who else has Ron been old college chums with? That seems to be the new search criteria in play these days.

 

[Tobacco Road]

The facts are that RW offered the job to BZ and he took it. The fault for the results we've seen should be at RW's feet. I agree with Baby and expect BZ to resign at the end of the season with the thanks of RW for mission accomplished.

I agree with what you are saying re: Wellman. But this is absolutely on Bz. No one forced him to take the job. He is fully responsible for his production and behavior. I hoped last season was the come-to-Jesus year. Based on his current contract, I really do think this year has to be the year to make the call on cutting bait or committing to Bz long-term. I don't see how you can justify making a commitment to Bz ball. We will see, but I am optimistic that Bz proves Wellman's "genius" or we have a new coach. I know where my money is. Hopefully there is a great fit available that is excited to come to Wake. CLAWS UP!

 

[421Deac]

I agree with what you are saying re: Wellman. But this is absolutely on Bz. No one forced him to take the job. He is fully responsible for his production and behavior. I hoped last season was the come-to-Jesus year. Based on his current contract, I really do think this year has to be the year to make the call on cutting bait or committing to Bz long-term. I don't see how you can justify making a commitment to Bz ball. We will see, but I am optimistic that Bz proves Wellman's "genius" or we have a new coach. I know where my money is. Hopefully there is a great fit available that is excited to come to Wake. CLAWS UP!

I guess I don't blame BZ for taking a job in the ACC when offered. It's clear he is not a good fit for this position but it's RW's to evaluate that. I do believe this will be his last year and will leave our next coach in a decent situation.

 

[DCDeac]

He was always going to get 4 years. We were always going to suck in years 1 and 2.

The rest is on him - if this year goes as so many are predicting, a forced resignation and effusive praise from Wellman would be a great exit. Definitely could have damaged our next coaching search by not giving him 4 years or by not recognizing his progress in rebuilding Wake so he can move on to something else. Even if fans know better, and it infuriates them to hear it, that's how it would have to go.

The Clawson hire is a pretty good reminder that as justifiably angry as the Wake crowd is at Wellman over [Redacted], he's still highly regarded outside of Wake and carries some serious weight. Be careful what you wish for as far as getting him fired so some lesser-known AD can try to recruit a great basketball coach to take over Wake in its current predicament.

 

[Why the Deac Not]

Definitely could have damaged our next coaching search by not giving him 4 years or by not recognizing his progress in rebuilding Wake so he can move on to something else. Even if fans know better, and it infuriates them to hear it, that's how it would have to go.

DC, here's your proverbial hammer cuz you just nailed it right square in the freakin' head. Let's see if Wellman follows through. If he's as smart and as crafty as some here make him out to be, this is exactly what will happen. I might not forgive him for some of his obvious disdain for the average fan and overall arrogance in his approach to PR and the media, but I will certainly change my view some if he gets us the damn coach we deserve next spring.

 

[wake4us]

He was always going to get 4 years. We were always going to suck in years 1 and 2.

Definitely could have damaged our next coaching search by not giving him 4 years or by not recognizing his progress in rebuilding Wake so he can move on to something else. Even if fans know better, and it infuriates them to hear it, that's how it would have to go. .

DC, here's your proverbial hammer cuz you just nailed it right square in the freakin' head. Let's see if Wellman follows through. If he's as smart and as crafty as some here make him out to be, this is exactly what will happen. I might not forgive him for some of his obvious disdain for the average fan and overall arrogance in his approach to PR and the media, but I will certainly change my view some if he gets us the damn coach we deserve next spring.

I smell fish.

 

[RacerDeac]

He was always going to get 4 years. We were always going to suck in years 1 and 2.

Suck? Sure. Be epicly bad? No. We should have sucked a lot less. We lost to many teams with far less talent on the court. Even in sucking, everything is relative. We're going to suck at football next year most likely, but I expect we'll be a much different kind of suck next year than we were this season. You don't have to wait until a team is mediocre to judge whether a coach deserves to keep his job.

Academically, I get the 4 year argument once the evil deed was done (despite the 3 years given to Dino that prove it's less about what's correct and more about Wellman's ego), but that doesn't excuse Wellman for making what everyone knew to be an awful hire in the first place and then aggressively insulting anyone who dared to question it. Whether Buzz leaves after this year or not, Wellman and his huge salary are no longer a net positive for Wake Forest athletics.

 

[jhmd2000]

LOL that Grobe "resigned".

 

[Why the Deac Not]

Sorry, I should not have made it seem like I think it is forgivable that we sucked as horrifically bad as we did in years 1 and 2. I certainly wasn't defending Bz. However, I knew from that first game I witnessed at the GSO Coliseum in 2010 against Elon that we were going to suck mightily and tragically. Right away I knew something was rotten in Denmark. However, I also could clearly see how destitute of real talent we were going to be, JTT included. I was even struck by how awful Ari Wheeler was after what I thought was a fairly positive frosh season. The whole team looked disjointed, unmotivated and of course, unable to shoot.

Racer, I think what DC is emphasizing is that it could have been even more damaging to fire someone again after just 3 years especially in light of the fact that in demand coaches would be so leery of not getting a fair shake after Dino was jettisoned for vague reasons despite an overall record that seemed to indicate success. But I don't think anyone could have imagined the level of suckdom we'd realize in those first two seasons. In retrospect, now knowing what the general thinking was behind hiring Buzz and "cleaning up" the program, it's not surprising we'd be pretty bad after running off some talent. It is very debatable though IMO how good that talent would have been. Tony Woods was the most impactful loss certainly. Guess we should steer clear of the name Woods in our future recruiting endeavors eh?

 

[Lectro]

I'd assume he's either "allowed to resign" with a Grobe-style severance or given an extension. Can't really see him earning that extension. It would be pretty uncommon to head into the last year of a contract with no measures in place for the future.

This has to be his last season. And to be honest, they look better. Bz's ceiling is just too low. Ron probably knows he's got a shot to largely salvage his rep among fans and he's halfway there. Peaceful parting of ways with Bz, good bball hire (which should be attainable), and waltz off into the sunset.

Nahhhh, Ol Buzzy is IN for the long haul. For insiders with observational skills - we see the guy in his 2nd real season after getting the socks up,asses wiped and an end to the 2 am calls.

Stick to the script. This team is now the Super Sophs...ain't one way and that's UP.

Dig it. Live it.

 

[RChildress107]

Sorry, I should not have made it seem like I think it is forgivable that we sucked as horrifically bad as we did in years 1 and 2. I certainly wasn't defending Bz. However, I knew from that first game I witnessed at the GSO Coliseum in 2010 against Elon that we were going to suck mightily and tragically. Right away I knew something was rotten in Denmark. However, I also could clearly see how destitute of real talent we were going to be, JTT included. I was even struck by how awful Ari Wheeler was after what I thought was a fairly positive frosh season. The whole team looked disjointed, unmotivated and of course, unable to shoot.

Racer, I think what DC is emphasizing is that it could have been even more damaging to fire someone again after just 3 years especially in light of the fact that in demand coaches would be so leery of not getting a fair shake after Dino was jettisoned for vague reasons despite an overall record that seemed to indicate success. But I don't think anyone could have imagined the level of suckdom we'd realize in those first two seasons. In retrospect, now knowing what the general thinking was behind hiring Buzz and "cleaning up" the program, it's not surprising we'd be pretty bad after running off some talent. It is very debatable though IMO how good that talent would have been. Tony Woods was the most impactful loss certainly. Guess we should steer clear of the name Woods in our future recruiting endeavors eh?

Except this very clearly wasn't the general thinking behind hiring Buzz despite what anyone in the athletic department says otherwise. And if that was the general thinking behind the Dino firing/buzz hiring then Wellman is even worse at his job than we give him credit for.

The only talent you could possibly say we ran off in the interest of "cleaning up" the program is Ari Stewart. We named Gary Clark a captain, Ty Walker stayed until the final game of his senior year, and we forced [Redacted] to retain Dino's coaching staff in order to keep our 5 man recruiting class.

Given what Wellman could have possibly known in April 2010, combined with all of his and [Redacted]'s actions since then, there are only two plausible explanations of the firing and subsequent hiring.

Firing of Dino:
1. Wellman actually meant what he said and thought Dino couldn't win in the postseason
2. Wellman didn't like Dino

Hiring of [Redacted]:
1. Wellman actually believed that [Redacted] would be a better coach than Dino, one who could consistently win in the postseason
2. Wellman really likes [Redacted]

Any explanation that doesn't involve some combination of the explanations above is plain old CYA bullshit on Wellman's part.

 

[CHillDeac]

Marquette's AD unexpectedly resigned yesterday. I say let's go get Buzz Williams. #BzOut #BuzzIn

 

[thedeacfan]

He was always going to get 4 years. We were always going to suck in years 1 and 2.

The rest is on him - if this year goes as so many are predicting, a forced resignation and effusive praise from Wellman would be a great exit. Definitely could have damaged our next coaching search by not giving him 4 years or by not recognizing his progress in rebuilding Wake so he can move on to something else. Even if fans know better, and it infuriates them to hear it, that's how it would have to go.

The Clawson hire is a pretty good reminder that as justifiably angry as the Wake crowd is at Wellman over [Redacted], he's still highly regarded outside of Wake and carries some serious weight. Be careful what you wish for as far as getting him fired so some lesser-known AD can try to recruit a great basketball coach to take over Wake in its current predicament.

DC, here's your proverbial hammer cuz you just nailed it right square in the freakin' head. Let's see if Wellman follows through. If he's as smart and as crafty as some here make him out to be, this is exactly what will happen. I might not forgive him for some of his obvious disdain for the average fan and overall arrogance in his approach to PR and the media, but I will certainly change my view some if he gets us the damn coach we deserve next spring.

If winning means MSD has to employ the likes of Ron Wellman and Randy Casstevens, I don't care if we ever win another game. But that is not the choice with which we are faced. The fact is that whatever "predicament" we are in, Ron Wellman put us there.

WellmanOUT! And the sooner the better...

 

[TheReff]

RESIGN!!! Grobe has shown [Redacted] the way in which to resign with class. You guys have seen DC and how in just one week has re-energized MSD. Since the Emperor won't fire Buzz, he should resign. We need a hire who will not only know how to coach, but re-vitalize our other revenue sport. Compare the two. Are there any comparisons?

Hard to go with this line of reasoning right now in basketball given that the team is 8-2 and on their way to 11-2 before the ACC season starts don't you think. And given that the league is way down and given who we play and where we play them, I can see us going 9-9 in the conference. That is a 20 win regular season any way you cut it.

 

[TheIshThatSaved WakeForest]

You think we are going to win at Xavier?

We have 1 top 100 victory and haven't played a road game yet. Jumping to conclusions a bit.

 

[TheReff]

You think we are going to win at Xavier?

We have 1 top 100 victory and haven't played a road game yet. Jumping to conclusions a bit.

I don't really think so. X was 0-3 in the islands and lost to USC who we demolished. They have split with UT, but have played Gardner Webb, Abiline Christine, Morehead State, Miaia [O], Bowling Green, Evansville and just got a good win against crosstown rival Cincinnati.

So we shall see. Still the league is really down in the ACC so us going 9-9 doesn't make us good nor does getting 20 wins get us NCAA or NIT. We can play with and beat the likes of NC State [2], Miami, Clemson[2], BC, VT, UVa, FSU, GT. Especially with CMM playing like he is right now. Remember the ACC only has about 4 teams ranked right now--Duke, UNC-Ch, Pitt & Syracuse.


Thu, Nov 28--vs--#23 Iowa*--L----77-74 OT--5-1 (0-0)

Fri, Nov 29--vs--Tennessee*--L--64-49--5-2 (0-0)

Sat, Nov 30--vs--USC*--L--84-78--5-3 (0-0)

 

[TheIshThatSaved WakeForest]

Xavier looked much better tonight against Cincy, blew them out of the gym.

I just don't see us going into the Cintas Center and winning after seeing Bz go to many venues the last 3 years and look grossly incompetent.

 

[RChildress107]

I don't really think so. X was 0-3 in the islands and lost to USC who we demolished. They have split with UT, but have played Gardner Webb, Abiline Christine, Morehead State, Miaia [O], Bowling Green, Evansville and just got a good win against crosstown rival Cincinnati.

So we shall see. Still the league is really down in the ACC so us going 9-9 doesn't make us good nor does getting 20 wins get us NCAA or NIT. We can play with and beat the likes of NC State [2], Miami, Clemson[2], BC, VT, UVa, FSU, GT. Especially with CMM playing like he is right now. Remember the ACC only has about 4 teams ranked right now--Duke, UNC-Ch, Pitt & Syracuse.

ACC is not nearly as down as people make it out to be. We have 8 teams in the top 46 on Kenpom (NCAA tourney range. We had 6 teams in that range at the end of last year) and we play 11 games against that top 8. And the bottom is significantly better. Last year the ACC had 6 teams ranked 96 or below, this year they have 2.

To get to 9-9 we will have to have the same performance against the top half of the league (steal 3 wins) while practically sweeping the much improved bottom half. I'm not saying it can't happen, I just don't think it's very likely.

 

[TheReff]

ACC is not nearly as down as people make it out to be. We have 8 teams in the top 46 on Kenpom (NCAA tourney range. We had 6 teams in that range at the end of last year) and we play 11 games against that top 8. And the bottom is significantly better. Last year the ACC had 6 teams ranked 96 or below, this year they have 2.

To get to 9-9 we will have to have the same performance against the top half of the league (steal 3 wins) while practically sweeping the much improved bottom half. I'm not saying it can't happen, I just don't think it's very likely.

Like I said, the ACC is down, regardless of what KP says. Maybe his rankings tell us that basketball in general is down. We have a few good top teams like Duke, Pitt, Syracuse and UNC-Ch when they play the cream of the crop. Other than that everybody else is beatable which means we can get to 9-9 this year and Bz can get to 20 wins. And with our weak schedule that will not make the NCAA tourney and maybe not the NIT excepting that RW is head of the committee.