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So has anyone changed their thinking on Gitmo

Wasn't KSM, it was Al-Libbi, sorry if I got my assholes confused.
 
ArlingtonDeac said:
It doesn't track that just because we got this info while operating an illegal black ops prison -- one that betrays core American values and serves as a rallying point for our enemies -- that we wouldn't have also gotten the same info by using legal investigative methods. It's highly likely that the same intel would've been obtained had we obeyed our laws and stuck to proven, workable forensic techniques.

GITMO is a stain on the American character. It's closure is a moral imperative. The United States shouldn't be in the wildly hypocritical business of throwing people in a hole indefinitely without providing any charges, process, evidence rights, or a day in court. That was true yesterday and remains true today.
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A couple of thoughts:

1. The inmates in Gitmo are unlawful combatants and are treated as such. They are not afforded the same rights as prisoners of war.

2. Gitmo may be a rallying cry for our enemies, but so is killing Bin Laden. Doesnt mean we shouldnt do what is in our best interests.
 
Les Grossman said:
A couple of thoughts:

1. The inmates in Gitmo are unlawful combatants and are treated as such. They are not afforded the same rights as prisoners of war.

2. Gitmo may be a rallying cry for our enemies, but so is killing Bin Laden. Doesnt mean we shouldnt do what is in our best interests.
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The "enemy combatants" label was something made up out of whole cloth by the Bush Administration and not recognizied by the world.
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-one-phone-call_n_856674.html

WASHINGTON -- When one of Osama bin Laden's most trusted aides picked up the phone last year, he unknowingly led U.S. pursuers to the doorstep of his boss, the world's most wanted terrorist.

[Snip]

In a secret CIA prison in Eastern Europe years ago, al-Qaida's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, gave authorities the nicknames of several of bin Laden's couriers, four former U.S. intelligence officials said. Those names were among thousands of leads the CIA was pursuing.

[Snip]

Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.

[Snip]

Said the president: "I think we can all agree this is a good day for America."

___

Associated Press writers Kimberly Dozier, Eileen Sullivan and Ben Feller in Washington and Kathy Gannon in Islamabad, Pakistan contributed to this report.
 
Micheal Isikoff is defnitively reporting that the identity of the courier was not gotten during "enhanced techniques" interrogation of KSM.

They didn't get the identity of the guy until YEARS after that was stopped.

The premise of Cheney and others is completely blown out of the water.
 
RJKarl said:
The "enemy combatants" label was something made up out of whole cloth by the Bush Administration and not recognizied by the world.
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The definition of what is a lawful combatant has been around since the third Geneva Convention in 1949.
 
I read that they first leaned the nickname of the courier from someone else, but really got interested in the guy when KSM, in Gitmo, denied that the courier was anybody important. The Gitmo interrogators supposedly felt fairly suspicious that KSM was trying to protect/hide info about the courier and so they intensified their efforts to learn more about him. Took a lot of time.

Anyhow, all the stuff I've read suggests that the intelligence gathering that led to this raid was long, complicated, and occurred in a variety of settings. Including Gitmo and some of the secret detainee prisons. Now, obviously, you can argue against these kinds of places/techniques on moral grounds, regardless of if they are actually "effective" or not in some way. But it seems they may have been a part of some important intelligence gathering. I guess we'll learn more going forward.
 
ArlingtonDeac said:
He was a legally-indicted fugitive sought in connection with numerous crimes for which we had ample evidence to convict. He was killed while resisting capture. Done.
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Does it change your analysis if he was unarmed as is now being reported?
 
ArlingtonDeac said:
GITMO is still on life support because the use of illegal torture techniques on the Yemeni prisoners (and others) has created a class of prisoners that are known to be guilty, but can never be tried in any court because the evidence of their guilt was obtained illegally and is now inadmissible (even in a military tribunal). The cowardly shortcut of "enhanced interrogation techniques" serves only to prevent bringing these known terrorists to justice.

So Obama has a shit sandwich- he can't try them because of what Bush and Cheney approved, but he knows without a doubt they are guilty of crimes and a threat to our security. So he compromised a core belief in the name of national security.

But make no mistake, GITMO is not taking new prisoners, and as soon as we can find an answer to this company of ghost men that we are stuck with, the facility with be closed, and only remembered as part of a dark epoch in our history of ignoring the rule of law.

We've stopped the torture, so this class of prisoner will soon be relegated to history. We can then reaffirm that everyone has the right to basic legal process, even our enemies. We're on the right path, albeit to slowly.
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First, those dirtbags wouldn't even have Constitutional rights if not for the Democrats and their votes on the SCOTUS doing some incredible legal gymnastics to reach a conclusion that fit their anti-war stance. Second, we can still slap POW status on those weenies and hold them forever or until the end of hostilities, whichever comes first. Third, there is no doubt in my mind that all persons that fit your definition of having "evidence fucked up by GWB and his enhanced interrogations" (my quote, not yours) could be tried based on evidence that got them gathered up in the first place, as well as evidence stemming from whatever overt actions might have occurred afterwards that they claimed knowledge of.

But it's fun to see this administration badmouth GITMO and use it to their advantage at the same time. Typical talking from both sides of the mouth. We can sit here and argue over 3 assholes being waterboarded all day, but GITMO itself is a first class facility run by first class soldiers who endure more shit in a week than most of us do in a lifetime.
 
i wonder what the "remarks" at his funeral were?
 
I wonder if Eric Holder will continue a criminal investigation of the CIA interrogators who handled KSM?
 
I love how Dems are patriotic only when its convenient to be patriotic.

Check out Pelosi's Bin Laden statement then and now:

Here’s Nancy Pelosi from a press conference on September 7, 2006:

[E]ven if [Osama bin Laden] is caught tomorrow, it is five years too late. He has done more damage the longer he has been out there. But, in fact, the damage that he has done . . . is done. And even to capture him now I don’t think makes us any safer.

And here’s Nancy Pelosi yesterday:

The death of Osama bin Laden marks the most significant development in our fight against al-Qaida. . . . I salute President Obama, his national security team, Director Panetta, our men and women in the intelligence community and military, and other nations who supported this effort for their leadership in achieving this major accomplishment. . . . [T]he death of Osama bin Laden is historic. . . .
 
Aocs3182 said:
I wonder if Eric Holder will continue a criminal investigation of the CIA interrogators who handled KSM?
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They stopped rthat long ago. although I totally disagree with them not holding those who tortured people responsbile for doing as well as those who ordered the treatment.

There is absolutely NO differenece between our people waterboarding prisoners and our executing a Japanese officer for doing during WWII and putting another in jail for fifteen years for waterboarding US soldiers.

If it's punishable to do our soliders, it's punishable for our people to do it.
 
What is this bullshit about us not flying our flag at Gitmo anymore because it offends the prisoners?

W.T.F.
 
Go said:
I love how Dems are patriotic only when its convenient to be patriotic.

Check out Pelosi's Bin Laden statement then and now:

Here’s Nancy Pelosi from a press conference on September 7, 2006:

[E]ven if [Osama bin Laden] is caught tomorrow, it is five years too late. He has done more damage the longer he has been out there. But, in fact, the damage that he has done . . . is done. And even to capture him now I don’t think makes us any safer.

And here’s Nancy Pelosi yesterday:

The death of Osama bin Laden marks the most significant development in our fight against al-Qaida. . . . I salute President Obama, his national security team, Director Panetta, our men and women in the intelligence community and military, and other nations who supported this effort for their leadership in achieving this major accomplishment. . . . [T]he death of Osama bin Laden is historic. . . .
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Pelosi's comments have nothing to do with patriotism -- not sure where you get that. And they're somewhat similar to Bush's flippant comments way back in 2002:


"So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him...I don't know where he is. I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him."
 
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