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SPOILERS: Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread SPOILERS

the whole concept of space warfare as depicted in Star Wars is and has always been ridiculous. It's completely based on WWII, that was a creative decision made by Lucas who wanted it to look that way. A society advanced enough to travel at light speed, create AI robots, and design weapons that can vaporize planets would never conduct warfare at point-blank range in slow moving capital ships. It would be done by AI-powered drones fighting it out in the cold of space at speeds and complexities too vast for human minds to comprehend. That, however, would make for extremely lame cinema, so there's no point in trying to rationalize it - just enjoy the show.
 
LOL. Go ahead and write your fanfic about visiting Lando at the galactic version of The Villages.
 
PhDeac said:
LOL. Go ahead and write your fanfic about visiting Lando at the galactic version of The Villages.
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aren't you always the one who says "here's what I would have liked to have seen..." or "here's how they can do a sequel..." with many of the comic book movies?
 
BarcaDeac said:
aren't you always the one who says "here's what I would have liked to have seen..." or "here's how they can do a sequel..." with many of the comic book movies?
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Not to the extent people are doing here. Even when I do, it's not a reason I dislike the films.
 
Deacon923 said:
the whole concept of space warfare as depicted in Star Wars is and has always been ridiculous. It's completely based on WWII, that was a creative decision made by Lucas who wanted it to look that way. A society advanced enough to travel at light speed, create AI robots, and design weapons that can vaporize planets would never conduct warfare at point-blank range in slow moving capital ships. It would be done by AI-powered drones fighting it out in the cold of space at speeds and complexities too vast for human minds to comprehend. That, however, would make for extremely lame cinema, so there's no point in trying to rationalize it - just enjoy the show.
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Exactly. Star Wars is not and never has been science fiction. It is fantasy set in space.
 
Deacon923 said:
the whole concept of space warfare as depicted in Star Wars is and has always been ridiculous. It's completely based on WWII, that was a creative decision made by Lucas who wanted it to look that way. A society advanced enough to travel at light speed, create AI robots, and design weapons that can vaporize planets would never conduct warfare at point-blank range in slow moving capital ships. It would be done by AI-powered drones fighting it out in the cold of space at speeds and complexities too vast for human minds to comprehend. That, however, would make for extremely lame cinema, so there's no point in trying to rationalize it - just enjoy the show.
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i can rationalize the lack of hyperspeed ramming way more easily than the employing of high-level bombing tactics
 
slate has a pretty good analysis of TLJ as a comment on fandom and how we as a culture relate to our myths:

...Finn, who is jumping ship, falls short of Rose’s expectations. He is embarrassed, and she disillusioned. The scheme they hatch soothes Poe’s rage, Finn’s shame, and Rose’s grief—by casting them all in Canto Bight: A Star Wars Story. The three heroes consult Maz Kanata in her capacity as lorekeeper, and she sends them off to find “the Master Codebreaker,” a title so self-evidently parodic that it had already been used as a joke on Adult Swim’s Decker.

Finn and Rose fly off to Canto Bight, a mashup of the Mos Eisley Cantina and the blue-haired techno-decadence of the Hunger Games and Bladerunner movies. Rosenberg is disgusted by what happens next:

Finn and Rose spot the [Master Codebreaker] for approximately five seconds, then after they are locked up for—I truly wish I was making this up—a parking violation, they don’t bother to find him again and accept an offer of services from a completely random person with whom they have been imprisoned (Benicio Del Toro) because he says he can do it.

(This response is a rare window into how some people must have reacted to Don Quixote in 1605. The Knight of the Sorrowful Countenance sojourns at a castle, and then a man claiming to be the castle’s “innkeeper”—I truly wish I was making this up—demands payment from him.) It’s not really that hard to understand why Finn and Rose would accept help from the “random person,” DJ: He reminds them of Han Solo, of whom he is a parody, and the suave Master Codebreaker doesn’t.

The “pointless” misadventure has a definitive effect on the “real” plot, the struggle between the Resistance and the First Order. When Poe learns that the fleet is retreating, he fears that his scheme will become irrelevant. He mutinies, delaying the retreat. Once Poe has been subdued and the retreat stealthily resumed, DJ—brought aboard the First Order’s flagship by Finn and Rose—blows the Resistance’s cover. Here is the narrative “point”: The retreat has been delayed thanks to Poe and discovered thanks to Finn and Rose. General Holdo, Poe’s rival, chooses to salvage it by plowing into the First Order’s flagship, immolating herself.

Holdo’s self-sacrifice, a counterpoint to Poe’s arrogance, is itself digested into myth in the film’s last act. Finn, still insecure, apparently takes it as inspiration for a truly pointless suicide mission into the mouth of a First Order cannon. (Like Poe, he flips up his earpiece when told to back down.) Rose takes a better lesson from Holdo, plowing not into the enemy but into Finn to save him. When Luke strides out to confront Kylo Ren, Poe stops Finn from intervening. Having witnessed Holdo’s self-sacrifice, Finn’s misapplication of self-sacrifice, and Rose’s counterintuitive application of self-sacrifice, Poe has developed a healthy skepticism of myth. He can see that Luke is turning a myth—the myth of Luke—against its consumer, Kylo Ren.

As Finn and Rose depart Canto Bight, Poe phones in to ask if they’ve found “the Master Codebreaker.” Finn replies that they’ve found “a master codebreaker.” It’s low-key a punchline. Snoke has told Kylo Ren that he’ll never amount to “a new Vader”; Luke has told Rey that the galaxy doesn’t need “a Luke Skywalker”; Rose has recognized Finn, formerly FN-2187, as “the Finn.” When Finn says “a master codebreaker,” we know that Canto Bight: A Star Wars Story is not going to end well. We may also glimpse the bigger problem: What happens when you want something so badly that you accept—or create—a shoddy stand-in for it?
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Just to add my own two cents about the hyperspace jump, it was always my understanding that you had to set a destination and then line up on course before initiating hyperspace. If this is the case, then you couldn't just point and go, you would have to have a target location lined up in just the right place in order to successfully complete a suicide attack. Moreover, the limited resources of the Rebellion/Resistance would limit their ability to make small hyperspace powered drones. The resources wouldn't stop the Empire from coming up with a working solution, though.

I mean, ultimately there is no reason to try and explain it, as it simply wasn't something Lucas was interested in. New blood provides new ideas.
 
Well, in ANH Han says he needs the coordinates so they don't blast into a supernova or whatever. But it's unclear if that's just a best practice or if the computer won't let you make the jump until you have the proper course.

It would seem to be a best practice because of when in TFA they go to lightspeed straight out of Han's freighter, which is a moment I hated.
 
they're not plotting to hit a starship across the vastness of space, it's literally analogous to ramming a cruiser into a battleship. i'm sure a human let alone a computer can figure out how to hit an object the size of a city at that range
 
Very good read.
 
Saw it again today with my five year old. It's definitely liberating to just watch it without expectations. I loved it even more.

The boards "plot hole" I remembered to look for was how quickly Phasma and the stormtroopers cleared out and left Finn and Rose during the lightspeed attack.

That's accounted for when Hux realizes exactly what Holdo is doing seconds before it actually happens. There was enough time to sound an alarm and for Phasma to get her troops behind the blast door. There were a few stormtroopers scattered about who didn't get out in time.

I think we resolved how DJ knew the rebels were evacuating to the transports. DJ heard Poe tell Finn. DJ got captured and sold the info for his freedom and what looks like a nice haul. Worth noting that the Empire honored their agreement. That's a specific contrast to Vader's deal with Lando in Empire. It suggests part of the Empire's power is striking deals with those willing to deal.

Something else that occurred to me is that (I think) the police on Canto Bight are the first law enforcement officers we've seen in Star Wars who aren't stormtroopers. I don't remember any Empire presence there. It speaks to the autonomy Cantu Bight has earned as a playground for those who profit from the war machine.
 
Vader paid the bounty to Boba Fett in Empire. There were private security forces at Cloud City.
 
Good call on Boba. I guess the cops on Cantu Bight could have been similar to security on Cloud City.
 
Pretty cool. Though it reminds me why I'm not working in a creative field like that, especially something like star wars. Just like i could never have a job in sports. I just care too much to be effective.
 
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