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State had us totally dissected

tbpnwe said:
Let's review problems:

Rape case from NCAA tourney.
Tony assault
JTT alcohol
Tabb stealing

Non of this is Bz fault and it was giving Wake a bad name.

The program needed cleansed.
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Aside from the completely trumped-up and ridiculous rape charges(which came out afterwards anyway), what happened before the coaching change took place? Why was there a need to cleanse the program before anything actually happened? Don't give me innuendo and rumor, tell me what happened in the program that necessitated a scorched earth policy for the program.
 
I have never heard a coach comment in the post game about what a wonderful job his assistants did pegging the opponents offense. Between that and the comment in the N&O about how State assistants were yelling out where the ball was going before it got there, that seems to be unusual to me.

I know that every team knows the plays that the other teams are running. But there appears to be a degree of predictability here that is concerning based on those comments.
 
I don't think it means much, but I have never seen an assistant be as active as Bobby Lutz was.
 
tbpnwe said:
We do not really have a player that can break down a defense off the dribble nor a creator.

State is bigger and far more athletic.

We also have zero post up game so you can cheat on the perimeter.

Let's review athletes we have lost in the last two years:

Tony woods
JTT
Ari Stewart
Melvin Tabb

add Ty as on and off again....

All except maybe Tabb and Ty are ACC upper tier athletes with size.

Let's review problems:

Rape case from NCAA tourney.
Tony assault
JTT alcohol
Tabb stealing

Non of this is Bz fault and it was giving Wake a bad name.

The program needed cleansed.

Although I am down about our program (though VaTech and MD games were very positive), I'm realistic about the fact that we needed time to start afresh. Some games we will face bad match ups.

Take Crean at IU, same position as here.....
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Crean took his prior team to a final four. Next.
 
redwing42 said:
Aside from the completely trumped-up and ridiculous rape charges(which came out afterwards anyway), what happened before the coaching change took place? Why was there a need to cleanse the program before anything actually happened? Don't give me innuendo and rumor, tell me what happened in the program that necessitated a scorched earth policy for the program.
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And how much of it was players acting out after their coach made it publicly known that he wanted them gone from the program? It doesn't excuse their actions, but we all know the kind of influence Skip and Grobe had/have on their players, keeping them out of trouble and committed, and turning them into better men (see Jho). Meanwhile, Bzz seemed to come in with the attitude that it wasn't his job to help develop his players off the court, and ran off those he didn't feel like investing in. Culture change...but not the kind of culture change I respect.
 
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deacz said:
Crean took his prior team to a final four. Next.
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Wouldn't that just reinforce the fact that even a good coach takes a few years to rebuild?

Granted that [Redacted] might not be a good coach, but you're actually strengthening the argument, not negating it.
 
ChrisL68 said:
I have never heard a coach comment in the post game about what a wonderful job his assistants did pegging the opponents offense.
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I just did a quick google news search, and came across this article where Izzo blames the scout team for Michigan State's loss to Northwestern this weekend.

Relevant to this discussion is this point:

Tom Izzo said:
To be honest with you, Dwayne Stephens had the scout and did an incredible job. I mean, we had everything down.
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(Dwayne Stephens being a MSU assistant coach.)
 
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DCDeac said:
Wouldn't that just reinforce the fact that even a good coach takes a few years to rebuild?

Granted that [Redacted] might not be a good coach, but you're actually strengthening the argument, not negating it.
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Serious, respectful question: What has [Redacted] done to make you think he's a good coach?
 
buckets said:
But he once had an Air Force team that was almost ranked in the top ten, doesn't that count for something?!
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Air Force was a fundamentally sound team when he got there. IIRC they were #1 defensively the year before he got there, so they did not need coaching up and they covered all of his weaknesses. He wasn't there long enough to change that. IMO Wellman must not have realized the situation but instead assumed Bz = Bball Grobe for having that success. Critical mistake.

And I've hated having NCSU fans make fun of us today. I couldn't even handle watching the game it was such a disaster. NCSU didn't even look that good when I flipped over a few times.
 
ChrisL68 said:
I have never heard a coach comment in the post game about what a wonderful job his assistants did pegging the opponents offense. Between that and the comment in the N&O about how State assistants were yelling out where the ball was going before it got there, that seems to be unusual to me.

I know that every team knows the plays that the other teams are running. But there appears to be a degree of predictability here that is concerning based on those comments.
Click to expand...

The fact that NCSU has a successful HEAD COACH as an assistant is not normal in it's self. Lutz is the "X and O" guy on the staff. Not surprised if he was the one pegging the plays. Hes smart as hell and a great coach.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Serious, respectful question: What has [Redacted] done to make you think he's a good coach?
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If that's directed towards me, then my answer is very little.

Ok at Air Force, was well thought of in the NBA, was a total long shot for Wake and I still seriously doubt he's the answer.

At the same time, you have a coach with Final Four success and he had to walk a far more historically significant program than Wake through terrible seasons to get back to decent, and we have a great class coming in. Crean won 6 games, 10 games, 12 games, and now has a good team. [Redacted] is looking at winning 8 games, 13 games, ??? then the year after we should be really good.

I just don't get the comparison if it's anti-[Redacted]. Crean is a perfect argument for giving [Redacted] 4 years to build a program.

Year 3 is what matters.
 
Basketball teams know each other's plays at pretty much every level from HS on up. It doesn't bother me that State's coaches knew our plays or even that it was mentioned in a post-game news article; it bothers me that our staff didn't adjust by adding in wrinkles, changes, shifts, whatever to those plays in order to make State pay for it.
 
The problem I have with Bzzz is he could not inspire me to get out of a chair much less run thru a wall like Skip could. I have always favored the inspirational leaders for young kids and bzzz is just too monotone and boring. It worries me.
 
Question: talent aside, does anyone actually think our offense is any better than it was during the Dino years?
 
JP could at least cite this board if he's going to lift directly from it.

Kidding of course, but its pretty damning that he independently has the same take as us internet jockeys.
 
TBR said:
Question: talent aside, does anyone actually think our offense is any better than it was during the Dino years?
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What offense under Dino? If you mean letting Ish dribble for 30 seconds before driving to the basket, then yes, it appears as if our "offense" is better these days.

You can't really say "talent aside". To me, that is the main difference. Dino recruited players and let them do their own thing, with seemingly little structure. Bz appears to be a coach who is teaching an actual offensive system. Which approach will be better? That has yet to be seen. . .
 
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