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State had us totally dissected

TBR said:
Question: talent aside, does anyone actually think our offense is any better than it was during the Dino years?
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No, because when Dan Bonner said Saturday, "Wake Forest's offense is basically 4 guys standing around and one guy dribbling," nothing different than when Dino was the coach.
 
Surely you are not comparing Bzz to Crean


tbpnwe said:
We do not really have a player that can break down a defense off the dribble nor a creator.

State is bigger and far more athletic.

We also have zero post up game so you can cheat on the perimeter.

Let's review athletes we have lost in the last two years:

Tony woods
JTT
Ari Stewart
Melvin Tabb

add Ty as on and off again....

All except maybe Tabb and Ty are ACC upper tier athletes with size.

Let's review problems:

Rape case from NCAA tourney.
Tony assault
JTT alcohol
Tabb stealing

Non of this is Bz fault and it was giving Wake a bad name.

The program needed cleansed.

Although I am down about our program (though VaTech and MD games were very positive), I'm realistic about the fact that we needed time to start afresh. Some games we will face bad match ups.

Take Crean at IU, same position as here.....
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Bonner said from the beginning that the effort on our end was not there. It was obvious. I don't understand that. I think Buzz was telling the reporter why the effort wasn't there, not break down with X's and O's why the offense didn't work. That being said, it is on the coach to have players up and motivated for eahc game. It doesn't always happen with most any team, but we have really come out flat a lot with Buzz. That worries me a lot. He is more of a teacher, and not really an "in your grill" motivator. If I were coach, I would have had the team running sprints immediatly after the game. If you aren't going to run hard during the game, we are going to see that you do it after the game. I am pretty mild mannered, but I would have been furious.
 
DCDeac said:
If that's directed towards me, then my answer is very little.

Ok at Air Force, was well thought of in the NBA, was a total long shot for Wake and I still seriously doubt he's the answer.

At the same time, you have a coach with Final Four success and he had to walk a far more historically significant program than Wake through terrible seasons to get back to decent, and we have a great class coming in. Crean won 6 games, 10 games, 12 games, and now has a good team. [Redacted] is looking at winning 8 games, 13 games, ??? then the year after we should be really good.

I just don't get the comparison if it's anti-[Redacted]. Crean is a perfect argument for giving [Redacted] 4 years to build a program.

Year 3 is what matters.
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Crean is a perfect argument for giving a proven winner 4-5 years to build a program. [Redacted] is far from a proven winner (the opposite if you actually need to stake claim to a position). [Redacted] will get another year unless he bolts, so this is moot, but to put forth an effort like the one we saw yesterday does not give me any hope for meaningful improvement.
 
88Deac said:
Bonner said from the beginning that the effort on our end was not there. It was obvious. I don't understand that. I think Buzz was telling the reporter why the effort wasn't there, not break down with X's and O's why the offense didn't work. That being said, it is on the coach to have players up and motivated for eahc game. It doesn't always happen with most any team, but we have really come out flat a lot with Buzz. That worries me a lot. He is more of a teacher, and not really an "in your grill" motivator. If I were coach, I would have had the team running sprints immediatly after the game. If you aren't going to run hard during the game, we are going to see that you do it after the game. I am pretty mild mannered, but I would have been furious.
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I thought the same thing Saturday, after the handshakes and all that, [Redacted] should've had the guys come back out and run them throught sprints and basic drills while the "crowd" was still filing out. Sometimes Embarrassment is good motivation. Of course, they had already been sufficiently embarrassed at that point.
 
D4L said:
What offense under Dino? If you mean letting Ish dribble for 30 seconds before driving to the basket, then yes, it appears as if our "offense" is better these days.
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How is that different than what we do today? Be honest now.

At least we had a transition game under Dino.

FWIW, I like what [Redacted] has done on the defensive side, but the offense is terrible.
 
deacz said:
Crean is a perfect argument for giving a proven winner 4-5 years to build a program. [Redacted] is far from a proven winner (the opposite if you actually need to stake claim to a position). [Redacted] will get another year unless he bolts, so this is moot, but to put forth an effort like the one we saw yesterday does not give me any hope for meaningful improvement.
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That just shows how big a gamble Wellman has taken on [Redacted]. He's not a proven winner and if he doesn't somehow become a proven winner here, the hoops program is set back a long ways. I've got a bonus room upstairs at my house that the wife told me was mine, so it's pretty much got Wake Forest stuff all over it. I've got a framed picture from the Jan. 11th 2009 win over the Tarheels at the Joel and the seats are filled with black and gold, the student section was full and loud. That was just 3 short years ago, now we might as well be playing in the Greensboro Coliseum again. My point is it's going to take awhile at best to get back to that and if [Redacted] doesn't start turning it around and we have to go through another new coach and rebuild, there's no telling how long it will take. It's just such a shame to see what our team and homecourt has become, when not too long ago both were very good. So far Wellman's big gamble has cost us a lot of chips.
 
I know I am not the only one that sees no kind of strategy or plan on offense.
This is what we see......pg dribble to top of the key stop, SG,SF, PF and C stand around the perimeter and wait for the ball to come to them, shoot and then get back on defense.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
That just shows how big a gamble Wellman has taken on [Redacted]. He's not a proven winner and if he doesn't somehow become a proven winner here, the hoops program is set back a long ways. I've got a bonus room upstairs at my house that the wife told me was mine, so it's pretty much got Wake Forest stuff all over it. I've got a framed picture from the Jan. 11th 2009 win over the Tarheels at the Joel and the seats are filled with black and gold, the student section was full and loud. That was just 3 short years ago, now we might as well be playing in the Greensboro Coliseum again. My point is it's going to take awhile at best to get back to that and if [Redacted] doesn't start turning it around and we have to go through another new coach and rebuild, there's no telling how long it will take. It's just such a shame to see what our team and homecourt has become, when not too long ago both were very good. So far Wellman's big gamble has cost us a lot of chips.
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I have been on the fence for a while but I fell off of it hard on Saturday. I don't think it will take a whole lot to rebuild a good program if we get a good replacement combined with the talent infusion we will receive next year.
 
deacz said:
I have been on the fence for a while but I fell off of it hard on Saturday. I don't think it will take a whole lot to rebuild a good program if we get a good replacement combined with the talent infusion we will receive next year.
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Winning cures all ills, but I do think it will be awhile before we get the atmosphere back in the Joel we had at one time.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
I thought the same thing Saturday, after the handshakes and all that, [Redacted] should've had the guys come back out and run them throught sprints and basic drills while the "crowd" was still filing out. Sometimes Embarrassment is good motivation.
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I really don't think that would have played well here had it happened. The line "throwing the players under the bus" probably would be used more than once.
 
VaDeac said:
I really don't think that would have played well here had it happened. The line "throwing the players under the bus" probably would be used more than once.
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I might be in the minority, but lack of motivation is something I put more on the players than the coaches. It shouldn't take any motivational speeches or acts by the coaching staff to get the guys up for playing a home game against NC State. Everytime a team comes out flat I hear the coach didn't pump them up, and yes that's part of the job, but player's shouldn't have to be motivated very much or everytime out. Further, I will say if this bunch is going to have to depend on Bzzz to motivate them everytime out, then we're in for a world of hurt.
 
Maybe Mr. [Redacted] demotivates the players? Given his complete lack of ability to fire up the fan base it wouldn't require a huge suspension of belief to imagine that was possible.
 
ChrisL68 said:
http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/01/15/1779243/deacons-sink-to-new-low.html

The problem may be more basic than that. Several times, with Wake Forest on offense, N.C. State's assistant coaches leapt from the bench to call out where the ball was going long before it got there.

Then I heard Gottfried's post game comments on News 14 last night.

Paraphrasing: Our assistants usually do a good job scouting the tendencies of our opponents but we really had them pegged.

Better address this Bzzzz. If State can do it, you can be sure that Duke, UNC, Virginia, etc. can do it too.
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Pass it around until 12 seconds on clock, Chennault dribbles back out, set high screen, Chennault penetrates, bad things happen, we lose. That is our offense.
 
tbpnwe said:
We do not really have a player that can break down a defense off the dribble nor a creator.

State is bigger and far more athletic.

We also have zero post up game so you can cheat on the perimeter.

Let's review athletes we have lost in the last two years:

Tony woods
JTT
Ari Stewart
Melvin Tabb

add Ty as on and off again....

All except maybe Tabb and Ty are ACC upper tier athletes with size.

Let's review problems:

Rape case from NCAA tourney.
Tony assault
JTT alcohol
Tabb stealing

Non of this is Bz fault and it was giving Wake a bad name.

The program needed cleansed.

Although I am down about our program (though VaTech and MD games were very positive), I'm realistic about the fact that we needed time to start afresh. Some games we will face bad match ups.

Take Crean at IU, same position as here.....
Click to expand...

For 1: All the things you said were true about the team that beat Va. Tech, and lost a close one to Maryland on the road. If our team was good enough to do those things, it's damn sure good enough to not get blown out by a rival NIT team, at home. These damn excuses were old the week after we lost to Stetson, and they're ancient now. A loss like this is inexcusable.

For 2: Anyone comparing our situation to Indiana's rebuild with Crean is a damn fool. Every time we take an embarrassing loss, people (Bzz apologists) revise our history in order to further excuse Bz's ineptitude. The truth is, our situation was not nearly as bad as Indiana's was. We were never under sanctions, we always had at least 6 or 7 scholarship players, and most of those players were highly recruited. Please stop using Indiana as an example, Bzz does not deserve that bullshit.
 
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myDeaconmyhand said:
For 1: All the things you said were true about the team that beat Va. Tech, and lost a close one to Maryland on the road. If our team was good enough to do those things, it's damn sure good enough to not get blown out by a rival NIT team, at home. All these damn excuses were old the week after we lost to Stetson, and they're ancient now. A loss like this is inexcusable.
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BzzIn: No Excuse Too Flimsy
 
All teams lose. I would bet that the majority of our fan base expected to lose the State game, so a loss was going to be alright. It's the non-competitiveness that is inexcusable, and non-competitive, blow out losses are becoming a habit with this regime. It will never be ok or understandable to lose by 40 points at home, or on the road. It will never be ok to lose to Wofford, or UNC-G. Look at the worst losses in Wake history, and Bzz has been the coach for an inordinate amount of them. When the whole fanbase begins to hold the coach to a daily, every game standard of competitiveness, we won't have these stupid Bzz-In/Out arguments anymore.
 
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