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Steve Forbes credibility watch

ChrisTheDeacm89 said:
Wrong. I've been around since the early 2000's in some form or fashion on the old sites. If I'm a troll, then I'm a well aged troll.

And dissent from mass hysteria does not make you a troll. It just means you have a functional brain.

I'm making the same argument I did with the change from Jeff [Redacted]. And Danny Manning. And now Steve Forbes.

You have to give them time.

GDO was probably one of the best coaches we've ever had, but when he finally left we had good options on the table, because he had over 10 years to build the program up from its' ashes, and yet couldn't quite get us past the elite 8 in the NCAAT.

Give Steve Forbes three more years. Then if we need to move on, John Currie will do what needs to be done.
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Who do you like better, John Currie or "Mr. Wellman?"

Also, as re-hashed 10,000 times, Dave Odom after being Butlerized, did not just "leave."
 
tigerswood said:
I'll shoot from the hip on return:

Very likely - Cam, Boopie, Parker, Reid, MMM
Pretty likely - Marsh, Carr
50/50 - Damari
Not likely - Sallis
Unknown/Mutual Playing Time Decision - Clark, Canka, Jao, Keller
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I'd factor in Cam's time to recover from surgery/rehab. Presumably, he is fine for fall. I am not sure he could have missed more easy shots last night, including his FT's.

Also, Clark would be gone imho. A 4-star (?) is not going to just sit there.

Damari - not likely to return, based on no information, just age and stage.

Carr has been playing (until last night when he rarely touched the ball - dribble dribble from Boopie/Sallis/Cam - ball movement? Is that dead?) like a guy readying to leave. Again, based on no information, just gut feeling.
 
tigerswood said:
I think he and Damari are in similar boats, but Carr seems more likely to return with enough RTQ incentive. We shall see. Hope they're both back.
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Carr seems like he fits what they're looking for in the pros to me.
 
tigerswood said:
I'll shoot from the hip on return:

Very likely - Cam, Boopie, Parker, Reid, MMM
Pretty likely - Marsh, Carr
50/50 - Damari
Not likely - Sallis
Unknown/Mutual Playing Time Decision - Clark, Canka, Jao, Keller
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I think this is close enough to accurate at the moment. The way Sallis has been playing though, I think it's less "Not likely" and more "Almost No Chance".

I think it's highly likely that the core of Boopie/Cam/Parker at guard are all back, which is awesome. Throw Juke in there as well and we're probably set at guard. Really just need to find impact transfers to replace Sallis and maybe Carr, but I imagine the NIL focus will be more on retention this offseason.
 
deacon14 said:
At the end of the day, there were five critically important games to close this season. At Duke, At UVA, At VT, Duke, Clemson. Even going 2-3 in that stretch is probably good enough to get a bid, provided that we don't shit the bed anywhere else.

In what was the toughest game of those 5 (by far?), we played relatively poorly and still had a realistic chance to win. It's far too late in the season to be claiming moral victories, but that still gives me optimism that we have the capability to do what we need to in the next few weeks. Now we have to prove it.
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We will have to go 2-2 obviously now at UVa, at VT, Duke and Clemson at home. I like our chances to win both home games (duh we are 13-0), which may be required as the Virginia road games will be tough.
 
deacon14 said:
I think this is close enough to accurate at the moment. The way Sallis has been playing though, I think it's less "Not likely" and more "Almost No Chance".

I think it's highly likely that the core of Boopie/Cam/Parker at guard are all back, which is awesome. Throw Juke in there as well and we're probably set at guard. Really just need to find impact transfers to replace Sallis and maybe Carr, but I imagine the NIL focus will be more on retention this offseason.
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Keeping Carr needs to be a priority. He has developed into a very good inside/outside big man with some offensive moves and shooting touch. Those guys don't grow on trees. And he plays smart and knows the system.
 
First of all, I am a Forbes supporter and do not want to see him go anytime soon. He is a great fit for Wake, especially in the NIL / transfer portal era of college sports. To use Steve's own words, your team is either "getting better or getting worse" - in the 5 ACC road losses, Wake gave up an average of 49 points in the second half. This has to improve to ensure that we make the tournament and have a good run in the big dance.
 
deacon14 said:
I think this is close enough to accurate at the moment. The way Sallis has been playing though, I think it's less "Not likely" and more "Almost No Chance".

I think it's highly likely that the core of Boopie/Cam/Parker at guard are all back, which is awesome. Throw Juke in there as well and we're probably set at guard. Really just need to find impact transfers to replace Sallis and maybe Carr, but I imagine the NIL focus will be more on retention this offseason.
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This is a bubble team. I wouldn’t be comfortable just replacing Sallis with Parker and adding a freshman. We definitely need at least one player on par with Alondes/Appleby/Sallis/LaRavia hopefully a PG and wing plus a rotation big.
 
PhDeac said:
This is a bubble team. I wouldn’t be comfortable just replacing Sallis with Parker and adding a freshman. We definitely need at least one player on par with Alondes/Appleby/Sallis/LaRavia hopefully a PG and wing plus a rotation big.
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Yea, even with Sallis playing like a man possessed we’re barely holding onto the bubble for dear life as it is. Gonna need a legit high-end starter via the transfer portal to have any hope of being good enough to be in the same (or better) position next year, IMHO.
 
Complacent Deac said:
Who do you like better, John Currie or "Mr. Wellman?"

Also, as re-hashed 10,000 times, Dave Odom after being Butlerized, did not just "leave."
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John Currie has a lot of time and work to be done in order to accomplish what Mr Wellman did with the AD over his time frame. If you've spent anytime in any of the newer facilities and compare it to what we did or did not have before, you'd easily understand that.

And yes, the Butler NCAAT loss was miserable, but GDO was her for over ten years, so my point still stands in that we were in a good position to hire a quality candidate after his departure.

This is a bubble NCAAT team we're talking about here this year. It's still quite possible that we go 5-2 or 6-1 the rest of the schedule and sneak in.

We are heading in the right direction with this program. Give Steve Forbes a few more years to keep things heading in the right direction.
 
I like Boopie a lot, but Forbes definitely should (and will) be trying to recruit a stud true PG over him next year.
 
oldschooldeac said:
I’ve continuously said that we should move on from Forbes if no, NCAA tournament bid after this season or next. Since you obviously disagree (based on your dismissive response) what is your threshold? Three more seasons? Five more seasons? Seven more seasons without an NCAA bid? Or, award Forbes a lifetime contract now? Interesting how those most dismissive of the fans questioning “credibility“ never want to set any parameters.
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My "parameters" is it's completely fair to expect an NCAA bid after 4 true seasons.

As Forbes is only on true season #3, a thorough top to bottom evaluation of the program should take place in the spring of 2025 if still no NCAA bid after next season.

I've questioned roster management and in-game coaching moves at times, but it's hard to deny some of the obstacles thrown in his path (Alondes' injury during stretch run, LaRavia blowing up and going to the NBA, contributors with remaining eligibility choosing to move on, Klintman bolting for Australia, injuries (again) to Monsanto & Ituka, etc.) which have made the climb that much steeper.

But back to the regularly scheduled program of each loss being an indictment of the coach with crickets after each win.
 
Complacent Deac said:
Also, as re-hashed 10,000 times, Dave Odom after being Butlerized, did not just "leave."
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Odom made the decision to leave as he didn't like his proposed contract extension after the NIT title and instead went "all in" on his '20-'21 squad hoping he would have leverage to negotiate after the season. And then Butler happened.

It was time to move on - Odom always wanted to scratch that itch of coaching at a "big state school" and nobody on the Wake side (at least with any authority) tried to stop him from leaving.
 
takes over moribund program during covid that had had one decent ACC season in 10 years. After covid year has gone 31-22 in the ACC over 3 years.

If you think he is remotely close to any hot seat, then well...................
 
Colonel Angus said:
My "parameters" is it's completely fair to expect an NCAA bid after 4 true seasons.

As Forbes is only on true season #3, a thorough top to bottom evaluation of the program should take place in the spring of 2025 if still no NCAA bid after next season.

I've questioned roster management and in-game coaching moves at times, but it's hard to deny some of the obstacles thrown in his path (Alondes' injury during stretch run, LaRavia blowing up and going to the NBA, contributors with remaining eligibility choosing to move on, Klintman bolting for Australia, injuries (again) to Monsanto & Ituka, etc.) which have made the climb that much steeper.

But back to the regularly scheduled program of each loss being an indictment of the coach with crickets after each win.
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There should be crickets when he wins home games that he should easily win, or beats a bottomfeeder on the road. That should be the bare minimum for someone in his position with the program and with the talent that he has brought in (which he gets credit for). I don't expect praise when I do the bare minimum at my job either. But at some point he has to win the more challenging games. He has yet to show he can do that. Hopefully he'll figure some things out over the next few weeks, but I'm not counting on it.
 
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