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Steve Forbes credibility watch

BeachBumDeac said:
I’m not ready to say that his ceiling is the first year that a roster is together. I keep coming back to the fact that there has been a lot of roster churn the last three years, but next year we should return most of our core. I think that additional time and experience playing together will be a big benefit for these road games.
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I keep seeing this argument and just don’t get it. First, it’s college bball. The yearly roster turnover is largely on the coach. I’m not blaming kids for going pro, but the coach puts together a college team. They are to blame for a new team every year for the most part. Second, in today’s world I see no reason why we would expect next year’s team to basically be the same as this year. Sallis is almost certainly gone. I would not be surprised at all to see Cam and Marsh leave. Boopie and Reid probably stay. Carr is up in the air.
 
deacdixieboy said:
I keep seeing this argument and just don’t get it. First, it’s college bball. The yearly roster turnover is largely on the coach. I’m not blaming kids for going pro, but the coach puts together a college team. They are to blame for a new team every year for the most part. Second, in today’s world I see no reason why we would expect next year’s team to basically be the same as this year. Sallis is almost certainly gone. I would not be surprised at all to see Cam and Marsh leave. Boopie and Reid probably stay. Carr is up in the air.
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In this era of college basketball, having a coach who can win that players clearly want to play for is certainly an asset.
 
ABCDeac said:
Forbes’ issues at wake have been a lack of discipline regarding valuing the ball and lack of defensive adjustments.

We should have blown many of these teams out in first halves but we let them hang around, mostly due to inexplicably careless turnovers and failure to just hammer mismatches we have.

Then in second halves, opposing coaches tend to figure out something that works and go to the same thing relentlessly. Forbes rarely adjusts.

Last year the state game when burns was given the ball to back down marsh over and over is the most egregious example.

But even against Duke on Saturday, flip hit the one three over Boopie with under a minute to cut it to 2. Duke was then running the exact same play. Flip fumbled it but it was just a bad pass. He was about to get the same exact shot, with Boopie defending him. It would have been to win.

Last night in second half notre dame ran mostly the same curl screen route (probably a moving screen but wasn't getting called), and Cam got beat by it repeatedly. just adjust to bring a quick double to prevent that play and ND reverts back to the terrible offense it has had all season.

This is why we so often give up career highs. Just no adjustments. We don't have ultra-elite talent at every position relative to almost any of our opponents. Opposing coaches do a great job of exploiting any mismatch, and we fail to adjust. Meanwhile we don't have the discipline on offense to repeatedly protect the ball and exploit the same type of mismatches.


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This.
 
BigDeacEnergy said:
March is a very strange month. I’d love to get in the tournament because you never know what could happen. Are you saying you’d rather miss the tournament and instead play in the NIT because the games are at home?
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Sure, I’d like to get in the tournament.

Every time they take a step to secure a bid, there is a stumble against mediocre teams. I don’t want a ‘22 situation.

I wasn’t really surprised we lost to ND. Were you? Do you feel good about beating VT?
 
deacdixieboy said:
I keep seeing this argument and just don’t get it. First, it’s college bball. The yearly roster turnover is largely on the coach. I’m not blaming kids for going pro, but the coach puts together a college team. They are to blame for a new team every year for the most part. Second, in today’s world I see no reason why we would expect next year’s team to basically be the same as this year. Sallis is almost certainly gone. I would not be surprised at all to see Cam and Marsh leave. Boopie and Reid probably stay. Carr is up in the air.
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right. He has gotten enough new players in every year to keep trying to win games that season but has also been trending towards taking transfers with more than one year of eligibility left so he can build consistency. And next year SHOULD have the most roster consistency of any offseason so far.
 
I'd be very surprised to see Cam leave after he elected to keep playing through a broken wrist rather than having surgery and shutting his season down. That is not something someone does if they are looking to leave.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
I'd be very surprised to see Cam leave after he elected to keep playing through a broken wrist rather than having surgery and shutting his season down. That is not something someone does if they are looking to leave.
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I don’t think he’d transfer but he can easily go ahead and start a Euro career. We didn’t think Dinos would leave either.
 
deacdixieboy said:
I keep seeing this argument and just don’t get it. First, it’s college bball. The yearly roster turnover is largely on the coach. I’m not blaming kids for going pro, but the coach puts together a college team. They are to blame for a new team every year for the most part. Second, in today’s world I see no reason why we would expect next year’s team to basically be the same as this year. Sallis is almost certainly gone. I would not be surprised at all to see Cam and Marsh leave. Boopie and Reid probably stay. Carr is up in the air.
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Sallis is gone. Cam comes back, though if Marsh transfers that may provide incentive to go Euro-pro. I don't know how close those guys are. Reid is nowhere near pro-level and can't transfer again. Boopie stays. Carr needs to move on. How does he even have eligibility left? Covid? And we have bench guys that will transfer or should be encouraged to do so.

I see us fielding almost an entirely new team next year. Again. And the problem Forbes is facing is that it's going to be difficult to keep pulling good transfers if you have no track record of postseason play.
 
PaddyWF said:
Sure, I’d like to get in the tournament.

Every time they take a step to secure a bid, there is a stumble against mediocre teams. I don’t want a ‘22 situation.

I wasn’t really surprised we lost to ND. Were you? Do you feel good about beating VT?
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No but that doesn’t mean I’d rather miss the tournament
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Sallis is gone. Cam comes back, though if Marsh transfers that may provide incentive to go Euro-pro. I don't know how close those guys are. Reid is nowhere near pro-level and can't transfer again. Boopie stays. Carr needs to move on. How does he even have eligibility left? Covid? And we have bench guys that will transfer or should be encouraged to do so.

I see us fielding almost an entirely new team next year. Again. And the problem Forbes is facing is that it's going to be difficult to keep pulling good transfers if you have no track record of postseason play.
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You honestly have no clue what the hell you are talking about.

Is the OU board that boring???
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Sallis is gone. Cam comes back, though if Marsh transfers that may provide incentive to go Euro-pro. I don't know how close those guys are. Reid is nowhere near pro-level and can't transfer again. Boopie stays. Carr needs to move on. How does he even have eligibility left? Covid? And we have bench guys that will transfer or should be encouraged to do so.

I see us fielding almost an entirely new team next year. Again. And the problem Forbes is facing is that it's going to be difficult to keep pulling good transfers if you have no track record of postseason play.
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Wait, you want Carr to leave?
 
Colonel Angus said:
You honestly have no clue what the hell you are talking about.
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Fine. Then say we return four starters in Reid, Boopie, Cam, and Carr. Monsanto and Friedrichsen too. Who is going to play behind those guys? Who is going to replace Sallis? You think we're going to overcome our issues versus physical play by trotting out Carr and Keller? When Reid gets into foul trouble, who is going to take his spot?

Whether we return 2 starters, 3, or 4, the issues with depth and physicality remain. Carr has hit his ceiling. Cam probably has too (when he's healthy). Boopie and Reid have upside. But I have seen nothing from the new guys we brought in outside of Friedrichsen that makes me hopeful. The entire bench is replaceable and some HAVE to be replaced because they are mid-major players at best. Some who look like career bench players aren't going anywhere because they're transfers.

So take out our best player, keep the rest, and where do you see us addressing our problems next year? Is Juke gonna be plug and play as a true freshman? Who is going to bring toughness? God if Cam goes, our toughness factor drops to about negative 40. We are butter soft.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Sallis is gone. Cam comes back, though if Marsh transfers that may provide incentive to go Euro-pro. I don't know how close those guys are. Reid is nowhere near pro-level and can't transfer again. Boopie stays. Carr needs to move on. How does he even have eligibility left? Covid? And we have bench guys that will transfer or should be encouraged to do so.

I see us fielding almost an entirely new team next year. Again. And the problem Forbes is facing is that it's going to be difficult to keep pulling good transfers if you have no track record of postseason play.
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Why would you want Carr to move on? So we can find another 6'-10" guy in the portal who can shoot from the outside, has a decent post game, is a good rebounder, plays adequate defense, and knows Forbes' system? And seems like a good teammate?
 
Buttermaker said:
Why would you want Carr to move on? So we can find another 6'-10" guy in the portal who can shoot from the outside, has a decent post game, is a good rebounder, plays adequate defense, and knows Forbes' system? And seems like a good teammate?
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I'm not sure anybody knows exactly what system Forbes runs, other than the let-them-play system. Carr is an ok player who can be replaced. In a perfect world, he provides bench depth and maybe fills in for an injured starter for a couple games. While he has addressed his issues with bulk, it has not translated to his game, where he remains soft and weak inside. His post game is "decent" on a good day, and his rebounding is "good" on a good day. I mean, he's 7 feet tall-- he should pull down 8-10 boards without much thought. The kid has made some big plays for us and hit some big shots, but I don't see him making strides in his overall game, and he disappears for long stretches. Granted, part of the issue with his lack of progress could be that there is nobody in practice who can push him.

We don't need to replace him with a Carr clone (though Forbes loves the big guys chucking up threes). We simply need a Trelonnie Owens kind of guy with some decent post moves and a midrange game and a big ass who can be physical and take up space.
 
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