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Steve Forbes credibility watch

Creamy, I’m legitimately curious, outside of the last second play call to Appleby early in the season, what makes you think Forbes is a good in-game coach. His players give good intensity in stretches, I’ll say that. But a lot of hero ball on offense without much ball movement, minimal OB plays, poor lineup decisions, and bad timeout usage all have me concerned.
 
TheAbster said:
I'm done. Look for my tickets on StubHub VERY SOON. Like by 9am tomorrow!!
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What a loser take. If you sat through the last decade of basketball with two hopeless coaches clearly taking us nowhere, why would you abandon your (presumable) alma mater now? With a young core that will be part of a tangible future for the program? What else is it that you have going on in Winston-Salem, North Carolina that is better than supporting your favorite team? 10 of these players will be back a year more developed next year. I'm confident six of them are ACC level players with multiple years left after this year (Carr will have two more years, Cam will have two more, Marsh two more, Keller three more, Bobi three more, Ituka two more). Support your team and your school. One of the only games we've played fully healthy this year was a top 25 road win. Let's hope Ty is ok and Daivien can get fully healthy and we can have a decent year in which guys like Bobi and Keller that will be good players in the coming years will take their lumps but be better for it over the long run.
 
tigerswood said:
Creamy, I’m legitimately curious, outside of the last second play call to Appleby early in the season, what makes you think Forbes is a good in-game coach. His players give good intensity in stretches, I’ll say that. But a lot of hero ball on offense without much ball movement, minimal OB plays, poor lineup decisions, and bad timeout usage all have me concerned.
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All very fair concerns that I share. I think between Clawson and Forbes we have two program builders and not two good in game head coaches. I still think both are going to be the right answer for getting us towards national relevancy.
 
tigerswood said:
Creamy, I’m legitimately curious, outside of the last second play call to Appleby early in the season, what makes you think Forbes is a good in-game coach. His players give good intensity in stretches, I’ll say that. But a lot of hero ball on offense without much ball movement, minimal OB plays, poor lineup decisions, and bad timeout usage all have me concerned.
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I hate contributing to this thread, but re: "hero ball on offense without much ball movement" -

last year's WF team had the best effective FG percentage and the best 2-point FG percentage in WF history - better than the CP3 or Duncan teams. Forbes teams at ETSU and WF consistently (except for 2020-21, which was a throwaway year) rank in the top 50 (often better) nationally in both stats. You don't consistently do that unless you run good shit.

We ran a pretty good OOB play to win tonight.

He should have called timeout early H2 at Clemson. I don't understand the lineup issues this season. So he's clearly not perfect, but I don't think hero ball is a problem.
 
Fair. There were definitely times last year where we played beautiful, Warrior-esque basketball. But there were also times, often in crunch time, where the offense collapsed and we went full ManMan hero ball mode.
 
thatguy2016 said:
I hate contributing to this thread, but re: "hero ball on offense without much ball movement" -

last year's WF team had the best effective FG percentage and the best 2-point FG percentage in WF history - better than the CP3 or Duncan teams. Forbes teams at ETSU and WF consistently (except for 2020-21, which was a throwaway year) rank in the top 50 (often better) nationally in both stats. You don't consistently do that unless you run good shit.

We ran a pretty good OOB play to win tonight.

He should have called timeout early H2 at Clemson. I don't understand the lineup issues this season. So he's clearly not perfect, but I don't think hero ball is a problem.
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Forbes himself took the blame for not taking the early 2nd half TO at clem's son, so there's that....
 
For Deac's Sake said:
You guys need a reality check. Name redacted and Mannequin would've lost that game by 20.
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I feel like it's 20 years ago and 80s Deacs are posting the same stuff comparing every disappointment to the Staak-era.
 
Forbes was ACC coach of the year in his second year. Bz/Manning never sniffed coach of the year in 10 years. In Manning's best year, 2017, he received 3 votes for coach of the year (Pastner won with that year with 24 votes).

We went 25-10, 13-7 in the ACC and ended up 35 in kenpom - in Forbes second season. Forbes isn't perfect, but he is a very good coach. He is also a smart program builder - he realized last year that we needed a major talent influx to right the ship, which he did with older transfers. After that he started planning for the long haul and recruited guys to form a base to work with for the next several years. He also showed he can put guys in the league, which will help recruiting, especially from the portal.
 
Rafi said:
Forbes was ACC coach of the year in his second year. Bz/Manning never sniffed coach of the year in 10 years. In Manning's best year, 2017, he received 3 votes for coach of the year (Pastner won with that year with 24 votes).

We went 25-10, 13-7 in the ACC and ended up 35 in kenpom - in Forbes second season. Forbes isn't perfect, but he is a very good coach. He is also a smart program builder - he realized last year that we needed a major talent influx to right the ship, which he did with older transfers. After that he started planning for the long haul and recruited guys to form a base to work with for the next several years. He also showed he can put guys in the league, which will help recruiting, especially from the portal.
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But is he credible ?
 
Rafi said:
Forbes was ACC coach of the year in his second year. Bz/Manning never sniffed coach of the year in 10 years. In Manning's best year, 2017, he received 3 votes for coach of the year (Pastner won with that year with 24 votes).

We went 25-10, 13-7 in the ACC and ended up 35 in kenpom - in Forbes second season. Forbes isn't perfect, but he is a very good coach. He is also a smart program builder - he realized last year that we needed a major talent influx to right the ship, which he did with older transfers. After that he started planning for the long haul and recruited guys to form a base to work with for the next several years. He also showed he can put guys in the league, which will help recruiting, especially from the portal.
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All evidence to the contrary. For the 2nd year in a row, our best player will only be here a year. We do not have a point guard on the roster for next year, nor do we have a commitment from a point guard. We lose our other starting guard (Williamson, who at least starts when healthy) as well.

On top of that, I would think the past few years would make everyone aware that there is no real reason to expect Wake (or most any other college team, for that matter) will have "a base to work with." Kids come and go from programs. The expectation is that McCray is redshirting to transfer. Its not hard to see other guys who aren't getting much time who would probably leave. Wake seems to have at least 1 surprise exit most years as well.
 
Jao Ituka is a point guard. The staff was very excited about him. I am hopeful his play reflects his injury more than his ability.
 
1. We are lucky to have Steve Forbes.

2. Ituka is a shorter version of Alondes, a downhill take it to the rim guy. Is that a PG? I don't know. I do know he looks about 60% healthy out there.
 
DeaconSig said:
All evidence to the contrary. For the 2nd year in a row, our best player will only be here a year. We do not have a point guard on the roster for next year, nor do we have a commitment from a point guard. We lose our other starting guard (Williamson, who at least starts when healthy) as well.

On top of that, I would think the past few years would make everyone aware that there is no real reason to expect Wake (or most any other college team, for that matter) will have "a base to work with." Kids come and go from programs. The expectation is that McCray is redshirting to transfer. Its not hard to see other guys who aren't getting much time who would probably leave. Wake seems to have at least 1 surprise exit most years as well.
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I'm stealing this from NJDeac - I think this is a good foundation and a very different situation from last year to this year:

Keller: 3 more years
Bobi: 3 more years
McCray: 3 more years
Marsh: 2 more years
Hildreth: 2 more years
Ituka: 2 more years
Carr: 2 more years
Monsanto: 2 more years
Bradford: 2 more years
Taylor: 2 more years
Cokley: 4 more years
Clark: 4 more years

We'll likely lose a couple of them, but we'll also likely add some really good players from the portal. I think it will be a very different situation from losing ManMan, LaRavia, Walton, Sy, Mucius, Whitt.
 
And don’t forget that McCray actually posted about the RTQ NIL group so, to me, that suggests he is possibly staying.
 
Rafi said:
I'm stealing this from NJDeac - I think this is a good foundation and a very different situation from last year to this year:

Keller: 3 more years
Bobi: 3 more years
McCray: 3 more years
Marsh: 2 more years
Hildreth: 2 more years
Ituka: 2 more years
Carr: 2 more years
Monsanto: 2 more years
Bradford: 2 more years
Taylor: 2 more years
Cokley: 4 more years
Clark: 4 more years

We'll likely lose a couple of them, but we'll also likely add some really good players from the portal. I think it will be a very different situation from losing ManMan, LaRavia, Walton, Sy, Mucius, Whitt.
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People also seem to forget after our last two coaches that players can actually develop during their time in Winston. If you think, for example, Ituka won't A improve a lot this year as he gets healthy and acclimated and B improve going into next year, you're wrong.
 
deacdixieboy said:
And don’t forget that McCray actually posted about the RTQ NIL group so, to me, that suggests he is possibly staying.
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McCray may well be one of those relatively rare guys who has a very realistic sense of how good he is (or isn't). He and his parents may have figured out that a season of practice and strength training while preserving a season of eligibility was better than doing that, and playing some garbage time minutes in a dozen or so games.

Would be nice if basketball had the equivalent to the four games rule in football.
 
This is a good thread and I enjoy the differing opinions. One thing that we just don't mention is when does Forbes get us to the NCAA tournament. I don't count a play in game as making the tournament so for Wake this is year 13 since we made the dance. Unlike football college basketball is about the NCAA tournament, make it good year, miss it bad year.

I'm interested to know when most of you believe we'll make the dance again. I like the energy and personality Forbes brings but I see no chance of making the tournament this year in a very weak ACC. Mike Young figured it out at VT very quickly; can Forbes?
 
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