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Steve Forbes credibility watch

I remember in one of the Forbes show he mentioned that he doesn't pull players after they make turnovers ECT because he doesn't want them thinking they'll always get pulled after any mistake.

The by product of that is long stretches of undisciplined play that we've become accustomed to with a Forbes coached team. He could get away with that at lower levels with more talent than other teams, but I'm afraid we will continually be stuck in mediocrity due to Forbes laisseze fair coaching style
 
This is where I am at the moment.
1. Forbes is (obviously) a much better coach that [Redacted] or Manning.
2. Forbes has upgraded the talent level on the team from bottom of the conference year after year to the middle of the conference.
3. Forbes' high school recruiting/player development has been abysmal- through 4 recruiting classes, Forbes has recruited 1 high school player who has contributed to the team in any consistent way- Cam Hildreth. He has recruited 3 other guys who have made limited contributions (Marsh, Keller, and Klintman). Even with injuries and depth issues this season, he has a guard (Clark) who he doesn't think can even provide 5-7 minutes a game.
4. There is no evidence during his tenure at Wake that Forbes can coach a competent defensive team- throwing out the covid year, we ranked 68 (2022), 223 (2023)(!) and 81 (this season) in defensive efficiency. And this season, we give up an average of 41.4 ppg in the second half of road games. That just will not get it done.
5. This season is not over, and the team could, theoretically, right the ship. I hope it does, and I hope Forbes figures out both rotations and some sort of defensive strategy that works.
6. I don't think Forbes will be let go after this season, although I have stated that I would let him go if he doesn't make the tournament. But I expect Currie will give him at least 1 more year.
7. On a long enough timeline, Forbes will make the tourney a couple of times- he is not a terrible coach. But my fear (and the current evidence) is that at best, he will be like Keatts- capable of getting a team to the tournament, but not capable of building a team that is actually competitive. And not capable of building a team that is consistently good.
 
I would say that one of Forbes' clear strengths in prior years had been his ability to create an excellent team chemistry. This year, for whatever reason - perhaps because Forbes (understandably) devoted a great deal of time to his wife's recovery, maybe because he lost Brooks Savage, maybe it's just due to a different mix of players - I don't see that same chemistry. I see a team performing less than the sum of its parts. In critical situations, I see multiple wasted possessions of hero ball, which seem to cascade upon themselves, one after another.

Maybe he can fix this over the next few weeks. I doubt it.
 
DeaconSig said:
This is where I am at the moment.
1. Forbes is (obviously) a much better coach that [Redacted] or Manning.
2. Forbes has upgraded the talent level on the team from bottom of the conference year after year to the middle of the conference.
3. Forbes' high school recruiting/player development has been abysmal- through 4 recruiting classes, Forbes has recruited 1 high school player who has contributed to the team in any consistent way- Cam Hildreth. He has recruited 3 other guys who have made limited contributions (Marsh, Keller, and Klintman). Even with injuries and depth issues this season, he has a guard (Clark) who he doesn't think can even provide 5-7 minutes a game.
4. There is no evidence during his tenure at Wake that Forbes can coach a competent defensive team- throwing out the covid year, we ranked 68 (2022), 223 (2023)(!) and 81 (this season) in defensive efficiency. And this season, we give up an average of 41.4 ppg in the second half of road games. That just will not get it done.
5. This season is not over, and the team could, theoretically, right the ship. I hope it does, and I hope Forbes figures out both rotations and some sort of defensive strategy that works.
6. I don't think Forbes will be let go after this season, although I have stated that I would let him go if he doesn't make the tournament. But I expect Currie will give him at least 1 more year.
7. On a long enough timeline, Forbes will make the tourney a couple of times- he is not a terrible coach. But my fear (and the current evidence) is that at best, he will be like Keatts- capable of getting a team to the tournament, but not capable of building a team that is actually competitive. And not capable of building a team that is consistently good.
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Although I agree with basically everything here, Parker has also been a contributor. In addition, it’s also fair to include Williamson and Damari as Forbes HS recruits.
 
deacdixieboy said:
Although I agree with basically everything here, Parker has also been a contributor. In addition, it’s also fair to include Williamson and Damari as Forbes HS recruits.
Click to expand...

Agree about Parker. He’s obviously good and will continue to get better. That said, I do think our terrible HS recruiting has contributed to our overall lack of depth which has been absolutely killing us.
 
thatguy2016 said:
I would say that one of Forbes' clear strengths in prior years had been his ability to create an excellent team chemistry. This year, for whatever reason - perhaps because Forbes (understandably) devoted a great deal of time to his wife's recovery, maybe because he lost Brooks Savage, maybe it's just due to d a different mix of players - I don't see that same chemistry. I see a team performing less than the sum of its parts. In critical situations, I see multiple wasted possessions of hero ball, which seem to cascade upon themselves, one after another.

Maybe he can fix this over the next few weeks. I doubt it.
Click to expand...
He was asked a question after the game about a lack team chemistry and if bringing in so many transfers caused that. His answer was “no next question” which was very unlike Forbes and seemed to me it hit a nerve
 
thatguy2016 said:
I would say that one of Forbes' clear strengths in prior years had been his ability to create an excellent team chemistry. This year, for whatever reason - perhaps because Forbes (understandably) devoted a great deal of time to his wife's recovery, maybe because he lost Brooks Savage, maybe it's just due to a different mix of players - I don't see that same chemistry. I see a team performing less than the sum of its parts. In critical situations, I see multiple wasted possessions of hero ball, which seem to cascade upon themselves, one after another.

Maybe he can fix this over the next few weeks. I doubt it.
Click to expand...
We’re essentially saying the same thing, but rather than a lack of chemistry, I would call it lack of on court leadership when things start to go south. This is compounded by Forbes disdain for calling timeouts during the implosions.
 
PhDeac said:
Depth would be nice but 7 man rotations aren’t that unusual in college hoops.
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We don't really have a 7 man rotation at the moment. We have a starter who is a shell of himself, a freshman who is a defensive liability, and a guy returning from injury who is a turnstile. We have 4 guys (Miller/Sallis/Carr/Reid) who are consistently playable at the moment.
 
PhDeac said:
Depth would be nice but 7 man rotations aren’t that unusual in college hoops.
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Agree. Both of Alabama’s guards last night played 36 and 37 minutes. Same thing for Providence and I’m sure other there’s others as well. It shouldn’t be a tough ask for ours to play 32+ minutes, especially after a 9 day break.
 
There is always going to be a lot of criticism after meltdowns, and that’s precisely what we witnessed last night. We’ve also seen it over and over again, particularly on the road, for a few years now. My biggest issue with Forbes has been how we scheme on the defensive end. I’m glad we recruit offense and teach defense - that’s the way to go in today’s game. But you can’t have a great offense and a terrible defense and be consistently good. We play man D almost exclusively at this point and don’t do a lot to pressure our opponents outside of the half court. To me, that shows either a lack of preparation, imagination, and/or ability to make adjustments during the game. Sure, we play sloppy basketball on offense for long stretches and have lost games that way, but I think we have lost a lot of toss ups that would have put us over the hump simply due to our staff’s inability to fix some glaring issues on defense. Everything else is fixable and not what’s keeping us down, IMHO.
 
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