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Steve Forbes credibility watch

diverdeac said:
The idiotic ally oop attempt nearly cost us the game. Stop with the hero ball. Time and situation!
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But the point is you don’t get 11-13 from the field Hunter Sallis if he’s playing timid and worrying about doing the wrong thing. Instead, you get Gonzaga Hunter Sallis.

Do I wish he would not have turned the ball over three times? Sure. Do I wish he would have thought about the time, situation, and relative free throw proficiency of our team and pulled it back out? Yep.

But aggressive, attacking Hunter Sallis is what will help this team win. “Stop with the hero ball” is exactly the wrong approach here.
 
Apologize if this has been discussed - what was with having defenders outside the 3 point line on the last play. With 1.8 seconds left, Duke’s only hope is a 4 point play. While near miraculous, there is a chance that a Deac mistakenly bumps a Duke shooter attempting a 3 if you have defenders outside the 3 point line. (certainly not the same, but Duke mistakenly bumped Hildreth at the end of the first half resulting in two free points)

You really should play all of your defenders in the paint and nowhere near the 3 point line. Let Duke catch and shoot and even if they make it, time runs out and you win. I think the coach should have a little more awareness there. Now if you had Wake and were giving the points, you might disagree.
 
I think Windy City is spot on about why players sometimes have brain lapses during the game. Players want and need to make plays. It needs to be automatic and they need to play w/confidence. For example, the Duke guard at the end of the first half knows and has been coached that you don't foul at the end of the half. But, he saw the slow pass and went for the steal and collides with Cam. Huge play at that stage of the game. Clearly, he knew not to foul but you gotta live with them trying to make plays to help the team win. That's what Sallis was doing. Efton's wide open and he made a play.

If we're going to die on a hill, I want my guys trying to make plays and not hoping to make plays.
 
EagleDeac said:
Apologize if this has been discussed - what was with having defenders outside the 3 point line on the last play. With 1.8 seconds left, Duke’s only hope is a 4 point play. While near miraculous, there is a chance that a Deac mistakenly bumps a Duke shooter attempting a 3 if you have defenders outside the 3 point line. (certainly not the same, but Duke mistakenly bumped Hildreth at the end of the first half resulting in two free points)

You really should play all of your defenders in the paint and nowhere near the 3 point line. Let Duke catch and shoot and even if they make it, time runs out and you win. I think the coach should have a little more awareness there. Now if you had Wake and were giving the points, you might disagree.
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a 90-fot pass for a tip-in, perfectly executed, creates a 2-point game with more than zero on the clock. If there is incidental contact, it creates a 2-point game with dook going to the line with more than zero on the clock, where a tip-in off a missed free throw ties the game
 
I wouldn't even have players on the floor up 4 in that situation. I'd have them all standing beside the bench. There is no benefit to playing D then. But no team ever does that.

Also 2 things can be true: The alley oop was a dumb play and 2&2 is a useless asshole troll.
 
WFU03 said:
I think a lot of the folks who are not incredibly pro-Forbes want him to rein in his players more. Those of us who are more pro-Forbes see this as a feature, not a flaw.

Check out how he responds to a question about Hunter Sallis and why he's so good. I've set the video to start with the question, but pay attention to what he says about confidence and having the player not look over at the bench after a shot.




This is why we get great results from transfers. This is why his players play hard for him. This is also why they occasionally do things that drive fans crazy and makes them say he should sit a player down after a mistake. But he's not going to do it. That's just not who he is or ever will be. His defining characteristic as a coach is that he wants his players to play with confidence and not be worried about making mistakes.
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I understand that style, but that only consistently works if you have much, much better talent than your opposition. Otherwise you get exactly what we have seen: a wildly inconsistent team that can look fantastic at times but often struggles in high pressure situations. Because you have to hope that your players bring their own individual A-games instead of knowing that they have an A-system to rely on even when they aren't playing their best. It is why we have a Center who commits some of the dumbest fouls you'll ever see (in addition to taking some of the worst shots you'll ever see), and you don't know if he'll pick up his 3rd foul 5 minutes into the game 20 feet from the basket. It is why we have a guard with an injured wrist who still hoists shots and thinks he should take the gamewinner away from his better teammates. It is why we have a PG who can either look great or as if he is still on the AAU circuit. It is why, despite virtually everyone saying we have top-25 or top-30 talent, we are still squarely on the bubble even after knocking off a top-10 team.

His style is what it is, but there is only so far that style can take you, as the variation from game to game is too great. We've seen it for 4 years. It rarely translates on the road. Hopefully we catch the lightning at the right time this year. We'll see.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I understand that style, but that only consistently works if you have much, much better talent than your opposition. Otherwise you get exactly what we have seen: a wildly inconsistent team that can look fantastic at times but often struggles in high pressure situations. Because you have to hope that your players bring their own individual A-games instead of knowing that they have an A-system to rely on even when they aren't playing their best. It is why we have a Center who commits some of the dumbest fouls you'll ever see (in addition to taking some of the worst shots you'll ever see), and you don't know if he'll pick up his 3rd foul 5 minutes into the game 20 feet from the basket. It is why we have a guard with an injured wrist who still hoists shots and thinks he should take the gamewinner away from his better teammates. It is why we have a PG who can either look great or as if he is still on the AAU circuit. It is why, despite virtually everyone saying we have top-25 or top-30 talent, we are still squarely on the bubble even after knocking off a top-10 team.

His style is what it is, but there is only so far that style can take you, as the variation from game to game is too great. We've seen it for 4 years. It rarely translates on the road. Hopefully we catch the lightning at the right time this year. We'll see.
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Let's just say I couldn't disagree with you more. Motivation and trust is a lot more important to building a great team than anything Xs and Os related.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
It is why we have a guard with an injured wrist who still hoists shots and thinks he should take the gamewinner away from his better teammates.
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I know you didn't watch the game, but Cam's made 3 against Duke may have been the biggest shot of the second half (I'd argue it was essentially the game winner), so I'm glad he hoisted that. Oh, and he followed that with 4/4 FT shooting down the stretch and a steal that led to an easy 2 points for Boopie. He was directly responsible for 9 of our final 13 points.
 
WFU03 said:
Let's just say I couldn't disagree with you more. Motivation and trust is a lot more important to building a great team than anything Xs and Os related.
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Yet we don't have a great team. We have a bubble team that, based on talent, should be squarely in the tournament.
 
Deacfan2009 said:
I know you didn't watch the game, but Cam's made 3 against Duke may have been the biggest shot of the second half (I'd argue it was essentially the game winner), so I'm glad he hoisted that. Oh, and he followed that with 4/4 FT shooting down the stretch and a steal that led to an easy 2 points for Boopie. He was directly responsible for 9 of our final 13 points.
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Yes, it was a great shot and he played great. He was also fucking horrible against UVA. It would be wonderful if he could play consistent from game to game. But those fluctuations are the result of Forbes' style, and is why we are where we are.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Yes, it was a great shot and he played great. He was also fucking horrible against UVA. It would be wonderful if he could play consistent from game to game. But those fluctuations are the result of Forbes' style, and is why we are where we are.
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I think the fluctuations are more charitably the result of a player who was injured and is still figuring out how to play through that injury. Cam was pretty damn consistent this season before he hurt his wrist.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Yet we don't have a great team. We have a bubble team that, based on talent, should be squarely in the tournament.
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First, we aren't on the bubble anymore barring a total collapse.

Second, the only reason we were on the bubble before the Duke game is because the team we have now is not the same team we had for all of out-of-conference with Efton not being approved.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Yet we don't have a great team. We have a bubble team that, based on talent, should be squarely in the tournament.
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According to you. Here are the recruiting rankings of our guys that play:

Sallis: 5 star, #19
Reid: 4 star, #28
Hildreth: 4 star, #107
Damari: 3 star, #87
PFred: 3 star, #130
Boopie: 0 star, NR
Marsh: 0 star, NR
Carr: 0 star, NR

That's not a dominant team on paper. Why are we as good as we are? Coaching
 
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