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Steve Forbes credibility watch

There is a major logical flaw with not considering Dayton to be the tournament. Every conference winner is an auto-bid into the tournament. Thus, it’s the tournament since autobids are playing there.
 
deacdixieboy said:
There is a major logical flaw with not considering Dayton to be the tournament. Every conference winner is an auto-bid into the tournament. Thus, it’s the tournament since autobids are playing there.
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But at the same time, there can’t be 2 teams seeded 11 or 16 in a single region. So those teams are playing their way into the regular tournament.


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buckets said:
i mean - we're talking about just adding a year to a banner, right? not actually hanging a banner solely dedicated to making a play-in game, right?
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Yeah, I was referring to that. IIRC we had a banner of tournament appearance years and this would just go on there too
 
scooter84 said:
Using bracket pools as a justification for why making Dayton doesn't count as making the NCAA tournament is pretty stupid. The people running the pools could easily add the Dayton games if they wanted to - but it is easier and cleaner not to and it gives people a couple more days to fill out their brackets.
You do you but I think the semantic argument is dumb and a waste of time. The goal is to get into the tournament because it makes you relevant and gives you a chance to be mentioned and discussed, a chance to win and advance, a chance to, in a dream world, make the final 4 and maybe win a championship. Does making Dayton do those things? Of course it does.
From wikipedia: "Played mostly during March, the tournament consists of 68 teams..." "The tournament teams include champions from 32 Division I conferences and 36 teams which are awarded at-large berths." "The tournament consists of 68 teams competing in seven rounds of a single-elimination bracket." "The Selection Committee determines the at-large bids, ranks all the teams 1 to 68..."

Wikipedia also refers to the Dayton games as play-in games and the next round as the first round, but, again, these are semantics. They have to call those awkward first games something.

Through the years the tournament field has been all kinds of weird sizes - 22 teams, 25, 53, whatever - with formats including small first rounds, teams getting byes, etc. Did teams that barely made the field and didn't get a bye or had to play in a "play-in" game or whatever argue about whether it really counted as making the tournament? I seriously doubt it. The NCAA decides the size of the field of its tournament - they have decided it is 68 teams and either you are one of those 68 or you are not. It is only 68 because they kept adding conferences that would get automatic bids, even though those teams are much worse (resume-wise) than many of the at large teams. So they added 4 spots to make sure deserving at large teams didn't get left out. And then, just for giggles, they decided that the 4 lowest ranked at large teams should play in Dayton instead of just putting the 8 lowest ranked teams there - because they knew the 8 lowest ranked teams would always be 8 of the conference champs from the worst conferences... There are 36 at large teams so making Dayton as an at large team means you are probably ranked in the top 40-45 teams in the country - whatever that is worth...

I just wasted way more time than this argument is worth... Either you get the chance to advance to the final 4 and beyond or you don't - making Dayton gives you that chance.
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More importantly, it is because nobody cares about those games or watches them. If the real tournament started on Tuesday, nobody would have problems getting their brackets in on time. The only people who care about those games and consider them tournament games are the sorry fans of the schools that lose those games. The teams that win them don't celebrate them as tournament wins. They aren't even aired on real TV channels. Sports is entertainment, that's it. And the NCAA tournament is what it is primarily because of brackets, and those games are not in the brackets because nobody cares about them. The people supposedly entertained by these games (viewers, bracket-players, etc.) don't consider them part of the tournament, so they aren't.

And we have the chance to advance to the final four by winning out from today on out ... that doesn't make the ACC Tournament part of the NCAA tournament.
 
Watching yesterday’s postgame presser. The lady in the media room called coach “Steven Forbes.” Who is more credible? Steve? Or Steven?
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
More importantly, it is because nobody cares about those games or watches them. If the real tournament started on Tuesday, nobody would have problems getting their brackets in on time. The only people who care about those games and consider them tournament games are the sorry fans of the schools that lose those games. The teams that win them don't celebrate them as tournament wins. They aren't even aired on real TV channels. Sports is entertainment, that's it. And the NCAA tournament is what it is primarily because of brackets, and those games are not in the brackets because nobody cares about them. The people supposedly entertained by these games (viewers, bracket-players, etc.) don't consider them part of the tournament, so they aren't.

And we have the chance to advance to the final four by winning out from today on out ... that doesn't make the ACC Tournament part of the NCAA tournament.
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They’re aired on TruTV just like a ton of other games in the first and second rounds.
 
I for one am glad that we have this argument regularly enough that I never forget how shallow and pedantic it is.
 
w84it said:
I for one am glad that we have this argument regularly enough that I never forget how shallow and pedantic it is.
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2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
More importantly, it is because nobody cares about those games or watches them. If the real tournament started on Tuesday, nobody would have problems getting their brackets in on time. The only people who care about those games and consider them tournament games are the sorry fans of the schools that lose those games. The teams that win them don't celebrate them as tournament wins. They aren't even aired on real TV channels. Sports is entertainment, that's it. And the NCAA tournament is what it is primarily because of brackets, and those games are not in the brackets because nobody cares about them. The people supposedly entertained by these games (viewers, bracket-players, etc.) don't consider them part of the tournament, so they aren't.

And we have the chance to advance to the final four by winning out from today on out ... that doesn't make the ACC Tournament part of the NCAA tournament.
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I dare say not that many people watch or care about the first round or two of the women's NCAA tournament, other than fans of the teams involved - did those teams really make the tournament? It is actually an idiotic argument. Just as idiotic as your comment on the ACC tournament - the only reason we could win out and make the final 4 is because winning the ACC tourney gets you entry into the NCAA tournament - just like being the last at large team selected does.

I am not advocating celebrating making Dayton and being satisfied with it - only that those teams are absolutely in the tournament, no matter how unimpressive or unsatisfying you might find it.
 
If we are obsessing on whether playing in Dayton constitutes playing in the NCAA tournament, (a) we have too much time on our hands, and (b) we are really aiming too low.

FWIW, I don't care if it is or it isn't, and going there and losing is only slightly less acceptable to me than not getting to play there at all.

For those invested in this important debate: does appearing in a local or regional round of American Idol and not advancing mean that you "appeared on American Idol?"
 
deacdixieboy said:
There is a major logical flaw with not considering Dayton to be the tournament. Every conference winner is an auto-bid into the tournament. Thus, it’s the tournament since autobids are playing there.
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Yeah, this isn't a real argument. The field is 68 teams. It has expanded over time. Each time it expanded, those expanded slots were "making the tournament". They wanted to expand more this time, not doubling the field to 128. This is what had to happen to add just a few slots. The expansion is still the tournament.
Every formal reference to the tournament is a 68-team field. The only argument against is based on one's "feels".
 
Kent said:
If we are obsessing on whether playing in Dayton constitutes playing in the NCAA tournament, (a) we have too much time on our hands, and (b) we are really aiming too low.

FWIW, I don't care if it is or it isn't, and going there and losing is only slightly less acceptable to me than not getting to play there at all.

For those invested in this important debate: does appearing in a local or regional round of American Idol and not advancing mean that you "appeared on American Idol?"
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We do have too much time - I am stressing waiting on this game to start.

No one is arguing that it is acceptable to barely sneak into the tourney.

Sorry, Kent, but there are no local or regional rounds of American Idol - there are tryouts. If you get picked at a tryout then yes, you did appear on American Idol - even if you were the worst one (last one) picked. The tryouts are more akin to the regular season.
 
Tobacco Road said:
Yeah, this isn't a real argument. The field is 68 teams. It has expanded over time. Each time it expanded, those expanded slots were "making the tournament". They wanted to expand more this time, not doubling the field to 128. This is what had to happen to add just a few slots. The expansion is still the tournament.
Every formal reference to the tournament is a 68-team field. The only argument against is based on one's "feels".
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I split the difference. If you a 16 seed autobid winner you’re “in the tournament” in Dayton. At-large power 6 poser (yes im talking to you Mannequin) - you are not until you win into the 64.
 
deacvision7 said:
Also, the red font that I put into your post is just an amazing sentence from a person. Like, what? Because I'm assuming you meant to type "not" and not "now" at the beginning of that sentence so the end of it is just so bizarre. "Yo! I don't know anything about this situation or the reasons behind it, but I place some of the blame on this mother fucker right here! ...for no apparent reason."
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Yes - I do. Because the fans have been left guessing about what happened. If a player was injured, that player would still be supporting the team on the bench or safely behind the bench. So the most reasonable explanation to me is that Damari quit. That's my assumption - because the explanation provided by Forbes doesn't seem to make sense given what we have seen afterwards. So if what I have assumed is correct, I would put some of the blame on Forbes and the staff for not being able to prevent a player who is getting minutes from quitting. It has had a detrimental impact on our season.

I do agree with you about not airing a team's dirty laundry in public though - I just wish it hadn't gotten to this point and think there is a possibility the situation whatever it was, could have been prevented.
 
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