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Steve Forbes credibility watch

Atlanta Deacon said:
This is what kills me. Fine, if the possession breaks down and Ried is wide open late in the shot clock, take the shot, but he should never take a three with more than 10 seconds left on the shot clock. The team needs to be coached. That last game was a microcosm of all our bad habits and coaching deficiencies. When you're 1-10 from three and the other team has nobody that can guard Carr on the block, stop shooting threes.
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Yeah Forbes allowing players to play freely attracts them but at some point he has to coach them
 
I think Forbes tries to put together the best team he can each season, with the focus and priority being on THAT season. I think that approach helped us quickly get out of ACC basement, but it is proving to not be a great model to consistently be a top 3-6 team in the ACC. With the portal and NIL, I think you can quickly go from bad to good or good to great with a baseline of a consistently developing roster. It's hard to jump from bad to great. But under Forbes, I feel like we've gone from "bad" after the dust settles on our roster turnover to "good" on admittedly really solid work in the portal to bring players in. But I think I need to see us go from "good" (which we might be if sallis, efton, boopie, and carr come back) to "great" with more portal additions.

If Forbes can't keep together and improve on an NIT roster where everyone is eligible again next season... then I think it's time to move on.
 
Rafi said:
For me it's not "we could never find a better coach," it's that I think Forbes is a very good coach. I listen to his press conferences and think he's very insightful and willing to adapt. I impressed at the vision he has when he takes portal players and makes them into all ACC players and NBA prospects. I'm super impressed with the results he has had at other schools - taking ETSU to the NCAAs twice in 5 years and leading them their best record in the history of the program (30-4), leading a community college to the national championship game in back-to-back seasons, assisting on the best team in Wichita State history, etc. And I think the teams he has had at Wake have been have been some of the better Wake teams in the past 20+ years, based on W/L and rankings. To me, this all points to a coach that knows what he's doing and will have success, if the program is supported (which I think it now is).
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Forbes clearly wins the press conferences (which after our last two awful coaches is an improvement). He can clearly work the portal, though as more programs get their NIL ducks aligned, it's an open question whether WFU can sustain it. But either he recruits soft, hard-to-teach players or he doesn't know how to teach them. As much as I enjoyed the UH/A&M game last night, it left me with the strong feeling that either of those teams would wipe the floor with us. I'm not sure how many decent shots we'd even get off against UH.

At the end of the day, we should have won significantly more games than we have. And that's what matters.

If I were in charge, I'd keep Forbes for another year (because he wins the press conferences and because of his personal issues this past year), but his seat would be warm, and merely sneaking into the big kids' tournament next year would NOT be the goal. Failing to do so would be grounds for replacing him.

But given the investment in facilities and $$$ Wake has made, I would set my goals higher.*


* One of the things that DR, 2&2 and others are spot-on about is the low(ish) expectations of many WFU fans. I don't know how we can expect excellence if we don't demand it.
 
The name of the game is making the NCAA tournament and competing for the ACC championship. In 4 years, Forbes hasn't done either of those. There are multiple reasons why but if we don't show significant improvement next year, making the ACCT semifinals and making the NCAA field (not the First Four) then we should move on.
 
Kent said:
Forbes clearly wins the press conferences (which after our last two awful coaches is an improvement). He can clearly work the portal, though as more programs get their NIL ducks aligned, it's an open question whether WFU can sustain it. But either he recruits soft, hard-to-teach players or he doesn't know how to teach them. As much as I enjoyed the UH/A&M game last night, it left me with the strong feeling that either of those teams would wipe the floor with us. I'm not sure how many decent shots we'd even get off against UH.

At the end of the day, we should have won significantly more games than we have. And that's what matters.

If I were in charge, I'd keep Forbes for another year (because he wins the press conferences and because of his personal issues this past year), but his seat would be warm, and merely sneaking into the big kids' tournament next year would NOT be the goal. Failing to do so would be grounds for replacing him.

But given the investment in facilities and $$$ Wake has made, I would set my goals higher.*


* One of the things that DR, 2&2 and others are spot-on about is the low(ish) expectations of many WFU fans. I don't know how we can expect excellence if we don't demand it.
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I haven't read any of that. I didn't read all of it. I read a lot about most of it, but what I did read, I did not read any of that
 
Kent said:
Forbes clearly wins the press conferences (which after our last two awful coaches is an improvement). He can clearly work the portal, though as more programs get their NIL ducks aligned, it's an open question whether WFU can sustain it. But either he recruits soft, hard-to-teach players or he doesn't know how to teach them. As much as I enjoyed the UH/A&M game last night, it left me with the strong feeling that either of those teams would wipe the floor with us. I'm not sure how many decent shots we'd even get off against UH.

At the end of the day, we should have won significantly more games than we have. And that's what matters.

If I were in charge, I'd keep Forbes for another year (because he wins the press conferences and because of his personal issues this past year), but his seat would be warm, and merely sneaking into the big kids' tournament next year would NOT be the goal. Failing to do so would be grounds for replacing him.

But given the investment in facilities and $$$ Wake has made, I would set my goals higher.*


* One of the things that DR, 2&2 and others are spot-on about is the low(ish) expectations of many WFU fans. I don't know how we can expect excellence if we don't demand it.
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Forbes won 75% of his games at ETSU. His teams were tough, played good defense, and won close games. Since he left, ETSU has won 42% of their games.

Forbes has won 57% of his games at Wake (63% since the COVID year), and 47% of his ACC games (57% since the COVID year). I expect he'll win closer to 70% (60% in ACC) games going forward. As a point of reference, Odom and Prosser each won 65% of their games at Wake (57% of their ACC games). So my expectation is that he'll win more than Odom and Prosser did.
 
PhDeac said:
Ideally no Monsanto or Reid would have been the time to get Keller, Marsh, Marion, Canka, and Clark quality minutes so they’d be ready to contribute in conference play.
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Yeah Forbes praised Clark and his defense yesterday. We saw months ago that Clark can defend.

Then he never played, until yesterday.
 
scooter84 said:
Please never mention Ituka again - I really do not believe he exists.
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He belongs on the "Oh what might have been" roster of Wake athletes or, rather, might have been Wake athletes. A list that includes Daniel Green, Shon Coleman et al.
 
Complacent Deac said:
Yeah Forbes praised Clark and his defense yesterday. We saw months ago that Clark can defend.

Then he never played, until yesterday.
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This is an example of the biggest issue(s) with Forbes. He gives an incredibly long leash to “his guys” and gives the other guys no run at all. There is no way that makes for a truly intense practice, which then doesn’t physically challenge the starters and doesn’t encourage the bench to get better.

I get he prefers man defense. So do I. But when you have no depth, a tiny point guard, and three or four tall, but sort of slow, bigs (and your best one is super foul prone), and you are getting torched on play after play after play in second halves, throwing a zone wrinkle out there to buy some time is at least worth a shot.

There is evidence we don’t sufficiently work on the following:

Free throws (fine, we shoot great but not in clutch);

End of game situations (see UVA game);

Mixing up Defense (see above);

Developing bench (see every season under Forbes so far).

So what is our staff actually doing that we can call “coaching”?

Give him one more year. We need to do at least two of these: be ranked at some point, make the final 32 of the tourney, get to ACCT finals to justify another year after that.
 
Rafi said:
Forbes won 75% of his games at ETSU. His teams were tough, played good defense, and won close games. Since he left, ETSU has won 42% of their games.

Forbes has won 57% of his games at Wake (63% since the COVID year), and 47% of his ACC games (57% since the COVID year). I expect he'll win closer to 70% (60% in ACC) games going forward. As a point of reference, Odom and Prosser each won 65% of their games at Wake (57% of their ACC games). So my expectation is that he'll win more than Odom and Prosser did.
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Could be wrong but guessing that Odom and Prosser on average coached against better teams than Forbes has.
 
BigDeacEnergy said:
Just for you and awakegirl, I’ll log off this board. Have a good one
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Dude, I didn’t ask you to get off the board. I actually like having younger people around here. I thought you were a dick the other night about the ACC. I assume you were in a bad mood because we’d lost. I’ve been a dick plenty of times when we lose. No big deal. Moving on.
 
Deaconblue said:
He belongs on the "Oh what might have been" roster of Wake athletes or, rather, might have been Wake athletes. A list that includes Daniel Green, Shon Coleman et al.
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Don’t forget Joakim Blom! Spoke like 3 or 4 languages but seems not academically qualified per NCAA to be a student multiple years in a row.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Right. We didn't lose to GaTech and ND because of a lack of money. We lost because we have an awful coach.
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Somehow we have this Jekyll & Hyde complex where our guys/coaches forget about the importance of playing hard & smart in important games?? Beat GT by 30+ in ATL then come out nonchalant at home and start firing 3’s early and more importantly not get anywhere near Kelly who made three 3’s from the same spot in the corner in front of our bench.
Fast forward to last night, same deal and they made 14 total. Several of our players just couldn’t figure out why we came out with no energy?? Geez guys, it’s a tourney game.
 
saltydeac said:
Completely agree and a big reason for poor perception is the next tier teams like us continue to crater down the stretch and lose to teams like UGA in the NIT.
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UGa 3 times now and LSU twice in last few years. Bottom feeders of SEC. Just can’t lose to them and look good nationally. It’s not like we are playing Mich St, Zona, Kansas or Tennessee—people with a bball rep.
 
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