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Terrorist group in Iraq seizes nuclear materials that could be used to make WMD's

I've long been an advocate of doubling the size of the Indian Ocean. Come on science!
 
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93Deac said:
Don't speak for me and my brothers and sisters.
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I'm not speaking for anyone but myself. This war was bullshit from day one, any reasonable person could see, and I along with millions of others never wanted to send American troops into that shithole to get injured or killed protecting oil profits.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
No, he ran partially on bringing the boys home. That means you turn over security to the Iraqis, bring most soldiers home (or send them to Afghanistan), but continue with the backing and support of the US government. We did one and not the other. A token force left behind to offer support and strikes when necessary would likely have nipped ISIS in the bud. And as a condition of the support, you make the Iraqis flip the bill in some way, shape, or form.

I'm confident that a congress would've cooperated for that had he had any desire to do so.
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Generally agree with your post. Obama wanted out to placate the RJ's and W&B's of his party. They and he (Obama) knew things would unravel thus completing the narrative they've been spewing for last decade. Same would have happened on the Korean peninsula had it not been for American leadership. Just because we entered Iraq the wrong way was not justification for leaving the wrong way. Sleeves should have been rolled up and some sort of Status of Forces agreement worked out.
 
aocs3281 said:
Generally agree with your post. Obama wanted out to placate the RJ's and W&B's of his party. They and he (Obama) knew things would unravel thus completing the narrative they've been spewing for last decade. Same would have happened on the Korean peninsula had it not been for American leadership. Just because we entered Iraq the wrong way was not justification for leaving the wrong way. Sleeves should have been rolled up and some sort of Status of Forces agreement worked out.
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We left Iraq under the agreement set up by W. Of you neglect this every time. W screwed the pooched lying to start the war, the way the war was fought and the agreement to leave.

You NEVER accept the truth.

The other truth is Obama tried to change W's insane terms to give our GIs immunity like in any other occupation. The Iranians/Iraqis said no. In what world are we allowed to stay in a country when we are told we must leave?

From BEFORE this immoral wat, I said the end game would empower Iran and weaken our position in the ME. Over and over you agreed with the lies W, Cheney, Wolfie, rummy and others told. You won't won't even Cheney, Tenet and others responsible for getting us into the war based in Curveball's lies even though Mossad, MI5, the Germans and the Frenkh, ALL told the CIA the guy was a fraud.

There is ZERO about Iraq that is not Bush's cabal's fault. They lied us into it. The mismanaged the invasion. They disbanded the well-trained Iraqi military. They had no plan for anything that worked.

Add to this Abu Gharib and GITMO and they succeed in further radicalizing the region.

Of course, it's not their fault in your bizarro world.
 
Abu Gharab is fucking a slap on the wrist compared to reality of current Iraq. Stop pretending it was a 1/10 of the subhuman activity that is modern day Islam .
 
Blaming Obama for the deficit is as retarded as hell. Bush left an economy that was hemorraging 700K jobs a month and set up for a $1 trillion plus deficit. ANY PRESIDENT was running trillion dollar deficits for a few years unless they wanted a depression on their hands.

The deficit has actually been brought back under control quite nicely.

Foreign policy is fair game, but making the deficit argument is just dumb.
 
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Obama's foreign policy plan has been two fold.

1. Get the hell out.
2. Don't start none, won't be none.

He's been successful.
 
PhDeac said:
Obama's foreign policy plan has been two fold.

1. Get the hell out.
2. Don't start none, won't be none.

He's been successful.
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As to point #1, that's partially true and was politically in line with the will of the country he is supposed to represent. He's been less decisive than you state in #1 as to Afghanistan, but withdrawal is a messy thing (pause for visual).

As to point #2, he certainly believes that, but so did President Clinton. Nine months later we were missing a couple of skyscrapers (not blaming Clinton, just illustrating causal analysis; we were fairly disengaged from the ME militarily on September 10, 2001). I do not believe our involvement in the Middle East causes the virulent strain of Islam, but it does give them something to focus their crazy against. Maybe the best plan is to toss deuces their way and return 100 years from now when the fallout has settled.

When history judges W. outside of the toxic political moment of the day, I think it will be fairly said that he wanted us involved in a broken place in an attempt to fix it with Western style Democracy. We shed a lot of blood and treasure in that effort, and it was quickly apparent that we were the only ones that wanted that outcome in the deal. If/when it doesn't take and slumps back into the abyss of fourteenth century violent theocracies, we need to remember the lessons of how little the people of that region desired our assistance. Allah knows we gave them every opportunity to beat back the crazy and the crazy won. The statesman of the Middle East we anticipated would lead the transition to representative self-government struck out looking when it was their turn to lead. If you shit the bed five nights in a row, you won't stop doing it until it becomes your responsibility to change the sheets. We need to stay the hell away from orderly duty in that section of the world, and if that's Obama's plan, I'm cool with it so long as we reserve the right to curb stomp anyone that looks our way for a fight. Let them build whatever they want at this point, so long as it does not threaten our security.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Blaming Obama for the deficit is as retarded as hell. Bush left an economy that was hemorraging 700K jobs a month and set up for a $1 trillion plus deficit. ANY PRESIDENT was running trillion dollar deficits for a few years unless they wanted a depression on their hands.

The deficit has actually been brought back under control quite nicely.

Foreign policy is fair game, but making the deficit argument is just dumb.
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The deficit is relative. It's how you changed what you were handed by your predecessor. Obama has cut the last W deficit in half. Clinton eliminated the Bush 41 deficit entirely.

The last two Dems were infinitely better on the deficit than their Republican predecessors. There's not even anything to discuss. The number couldn't be clearer.
 
jhmd2000 said:
As to point #1, that's partially true and was politically in line with the will of the country he is supposed to represent. He's been less decisive than you state in #1 as to Afghanistan, but withdrawal is a messy thing (pause for visual).

As to point #2, he certainly believes that, but so did President Clinton. Nine months later we were missing a couple of skyscrapers (not blaming Clinton, just illustrating causal analysis; we were fairly disengaged from the ME militarily on September 10, 2001). I do not believe our involvement in the Middle East causes the virulent strain of Islam, but it does give them something to focus their crazy against. Maybe the best plan is to toss deuces their way and return 100 years from now when the fallout has settled.

When history judges W. outside of the toxic political moment of the day, I think it will be fairly said that he wanted us involved in a broken place in an attempt to fix it with Western style Democracy. We shed a lot of blood and treasure in that effort, and it was quickly apparent that we were the only ones that wanted that outcome in the deal. If/when it doesn't take and slumps back into the abyss of fourteenth century violent theocracies, we need to remember the lessons of how little the people of that region desired our assistance. Allah knows we gave them every opportunity to beat back the crazy and the crazy won. The statesman of the Middle East we anticipated would lead the transition to representative self-government struck out looking when it was their turn to lead. If you shit the bed five nights in a row, you won't stop doing it until it becomes your responsibility to change the sheets. We need to stay the hell away from orderly duty in that section of the world, and if that's Obama's plan, I'm cool with it so long as we reserve the right to curb stomp anyone that looks our way for a fight. Let them build whatever they want at this point, so long as it does not threaten our security.
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jhmd is channeling his inner Dr. Phil!
 
"The statesman of the Middle East we anticipated would lead the transition to representative self-government struck out looking when it was their turn to lead."

Except these people never existed.

Iraq never existed before WWI. To think a country that that was forced to exist by outside forces and kept together by dictators would embrace a political system they had never tried and do it in a peaceful is among the stupidest decision any POTUS has ever made. When you add to this the suppression of the majority and a large minority for half a century, believing the oppressed people wouldn't act out is moronic.
 
If someone shits the bed five nights in a row they have a medical problem unlikely to be solved by personal responsibility.
 
So did jhmd agree with me? It's unclear.
 
aocs3281 said:
Generally agree with your post. Obama wanted out to placate the RJ's and W&B's of his party. They and he (Obama) knew things would unravel thus completing the narrative they've been spewing for last decade. Same would have happened on the Korean peninsula had it not been for American leadership. Just because we entered Iraq the wrong way was not justification for leaving the wrong way. Sleeves should have been rolled up and some sort of Status of Forces agreement worked out.
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uh the korean war and the second gulf war are not remotely comparable. with some thought, the differences across the board should be obvious.
 
aocs3281 said:
Generally agree with your post. Obama wanted out to placate the RJ's and W&B's of his party. They and he (Obama) knew things would unravel thus completing the narrative they've been spewing for last decade. Same would have happened on the Korean peninsula had it not been for American leadership. Just because we entered Iraq the wrong way was not justification for leaving the wrong way. Sleeves should have been rolled up and some sort of Status of Forces agreement worked out.
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this is hilarious. Obama and I wanted Iraq to unravel so we could say "i told you so" ???

How much would a Status of Forces agreement cost us, and how many of you would have agree to a tax increase to pay for it? On whom, the poor?

and the iraqis wanted us out too, didn't they?
 
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