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Terrorist group in Iraq seizes nuclear materials that could be used to make WMD's

So the Surge wasn't about winning the war and getting the hell out.

Great strategy.
 
^meh, that's a bunch of horseshit ELC.

To a large degree, these people are animals and will never stop fighting each other.

But to feel "a bit tired (sic)" after only five years since Bush and his band of greedy nincompoops destabilized the place by creating a power vacuum that only we could fill is fucking lame. You know damn good and well what happened, we all do. Americans wanted to leave Iraq, and Obama was elected to do just that, and he did for the most part.

It's your fucking people, your philosophical brethren, who went in and caused this shitshow, so stop feeling so tired. This is the mess of big business using government to do their bidding. This is the shit your side loves. Own it
 
No, Ph, the surge was about creating stability and driving the enemy back. The only strategy I can think of in modern times that was about ending a war was when we nuked Japan. But feel free to continue to redefine what the strategy of the surge should have been in order to fit your usual obtuse argument.

WnB- Yes, to a large degree these people are animals, hence why the surge was never some be-all-end-all as Ph seems to think it was in retrospect. I'm a bit tired of the same strategy employed by this administration every time something goes wrong on their watch. They are incredibly predictable. First, it is never their fault. Second, if they can, they will insert Bush into the debate and make it his fault. If not Bush, blame other Republicans. If not Bush or other Republicans, blame something outside the administration, such as Iraqis. Nearly 6 years in now, and this administration has hands that are immaculately clean.

You can say he was elected to do that, which in part he was, but in the process he must own up to the consequences of a total withdrawal, much as Bush must own up to the consequences of the war itself. I'd venture to say that the vast majority of Americans would've been perfectly fine with a scaled back withdrawal of troops that left 10-20k there out of major population centers. Total withdrawal was irresponsible.
 
TownieDeac said:
of all the dumb jh posts, misusing shakespeare has to be near the top
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It is right on target, which is why you guys have that not so fresh feeling.

By the end of this Presidency, we may have a speedbump for a Southern Border, nuclear materials in the hands of the terrorist State that used to be post-Surge Iraq and $20T in debt. I would be hyper-defensive of that abysmal record if I was you.
 
The "surge" worked as long as we had soldiers there and were passing out millions of dollars in bribes. Once we left, it was inevitable that it would fall apart.
 
WakeandBake said:
^meh, that's a bunch of horseshit ELC.

To a large degree, these people are animals and will never stop fighting each other.

But to feel "a bit tired (sic)" after only five years since Bush and his band of greedy nincompoops destabilized the place by creating a power vacuum that only we could fill is fucking lame. You know damn good and well what happened, we all do. Americans wanted to leave Iraq, and Obama was elected to do just that, and he did for the most part.

It's your fucking people, your philosophical brethren, who went in and caused this shitshow, so stop feeling so tired. This is the mess of big business using government to do their bidding. This is the shit your side loves. Own it
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These people will never stop fighting each other. That much is true. The best way to deal with that sad fact is to aggressively push to domesticate and diversify our energy production. I'd rather invest billions of dollars upgrading our grid and sourcing than trillions of dollars and thousands of irreplaceable lives trying to keep peace in a sibling rivalry.

I will have a difficult time voting against a candidate who says "Yeah, these people are nuts. We're out of here. Good luck, Israel. Let us know if you run out of bullets. Now, everyone who doesn't have solar panels on their roof by next Monday has to pay a 'tax' of $10,000.00 a year."
 
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jhmd2000 said:
These people will never stop fighting each other. That much is true. The best way to deal with that sad fact is to aggressively push to domesticate and diversify our energy production. I'd rather invest billions of dollars upgrading our grid and sourcing than trillions of dollars and thousands of irreplaceable lives trying to keep peace in a sibling rivalry.

I will have a difficult time voting against a candidate who says "Yeah, these people are nuts. We're out of here. Good luck, Israel. Let us know if you run out of bullets. Now, everyone who doesn't have solar panels on their roof by next Monday has to pay a 'tax' of $10,000.00 a year."
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This would get me to vote for President Jesus H. MacDougal or whatever jhmd stands for.
 
PhDeac said:
This would get me to vote for President Jesus H. MacDougal or whatever jhmd stands for.
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It turns out I was the one you've been waiting for. :cam:

p.s. Why did you have to go Scottish with it?
 
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jhmd2000 said:
It is right on target, which is why you guys have that not so fresh feeling.

By the end of this Presidency, we may have a speedbump for a Southern Border, nuclear materials in the hands of the terrorist State that used to be post-Surge Iraq and $20T in debt. I would be hyper-defensive of that abysmal record if I was you.
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you won't see me defending many, if not most, of this administration's failures

but if i do, to pretend that any defense is protesting too much is lazy rhetoric
 
I'm trying to remember, jhmd and elc, who manufactured the "intelligence" used to justify the invasion of a sovereign nation, took us to war "with the army we had", cost thousands of American lives, cost billions of national treasure, overthrew the existing regime for one even more corrupt, failed to perceive the inevitable Sunni-Shia fight to come, and all that other shit.

BTW, Mission a-fuckin'-complished.
 
jhmd2000 said:
It is right on target, which is why you guys have that not so fresh feeling.

By the end of this Presidency, we may have a speedbump for a Southern Border, nuclear materials in the hands of the terrorist State that used to be post-Surge Iraq and $20T in debt. I would be hyper-defensive of that abysmal record if I was you.
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And these problems you outline were easy to fix in the span of 5.5 years, and this President just failed to do it?

How do you prevent 20T in debt AND keep a fighting force in Iraq to prevent ISIS or whatever else gang of morons from doing this oh wise one? Does George fucking Will have a column for you that explains it?
 
Same way you start two wars and keep waiting lines at the VA low.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
WnB- Yes, to a large degree these people are animals, hence why the surge was never some be-all-end-all as Ph seems to think it was in retrospect. I'm a bit tired of the same strategy employed by this administration every time something goes wrong on their watch. They are incredibly predictable. First, it is never their fault. Second, if they can, they will insert Bush into the debate and make it his fault. If not Bush, blame other Republicans. If not Bush or other Republicans, blame something outside the administration, such as Iraqis. Nearly 6 years in now, and this administration has hands that are immaculately clean.
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ok, what should they have done? Increased troops in Iraq against the will of his constituency, risked the lives of more veterans who get inadequate funding, and increased the debt?

And should we be at war with central America, too?

I mean you guys caused all this shit, and then you shake your head when a guy can't solve it in 5 years, without spending money, and without a congress that cooperates.
 
Im mad as hell at Obama, but not about Iraq or immigration.

Why doesn't Bohner call a vote on immigration? It would pass.
 
WakeandBake said:
ok, what should they have done? Increased troops in Iraq against the will of his constituency, risked the lives of more veterans who get inadequate funding, and increased the debt?
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No, he ran partially on bringing the boys home. That means you turn over security to the Iraqis, bring most soldiers home (or send them to Afghanistan), but continue with the backing and support of the US government. We did one and not the other. A token force left behind to offer support and strikes when necessary would likely have nipped ISIS in the bud. And as a condition of the support, you make the Iraqis flip the bill in some way, shape, or form.

I'm confident that a congress would've cooperated for that had he had any desire to do so.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
No, he ran partially on bringing the boys home. That means you turn over security to the Iraqis, bring most soldiers home (or send them to Afghanistan), but continue with the backing and support of the US government. We did one and not the other. A token force left behind to offer support and strikes when necessary would likely have nipped ISIS in the bud. And as a condition of the support, you make the Iraqis flip the bill in some way, shape, or form.

I'm confident that a congress would've cooperated for that had he had any desire to do so.
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:confused: no one wanted either of these fucking wars once they reached the 5 year mark and were quagmires.

But ok. You are arguing nuances of war tactics. You take risks and you gauge support at home and troop morale against your objectives. This is no win. These fuckers are 500 years behind civilization. They slaughter each other over religious differences. Their zealots. On top of that, the troops know this and hate this fucking war, they don't believe in it, and neither do their families. Everyone knows this was for oil and mostly failed that objective. Bring 'em home. You gonna bust this President's balls for that? :rulz:
 
WakeandBake said:
And these problems you outline were easy to fix in the span of 5.5 years, and this President just failed to do it?

How do you prevent 20T in debt AND keep a fighting force in Iraq to prevent ISIS or whatever else gang of morons from doing this oh wise one? Does George fucking Will have a column for you that explains it?
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Cut taxes
 
WakeandBake said:
:confused: no one wanted either of these fucking wars once they reached the 5 year mark and were quagmires.

But ok. You are arguing nuances of war tactics. You take risks and you gauge support at home and troop morale against your objectives. This is no win. These fuckers are 500 years behind civilization. They slaughter each other over religious differences. Their zealots. On top of that, the troops know this and hate this fucking war, they don't believe in it, and neither do their families. Everyone knows this was for oil and mostly failed that objective. Bring 'em home. You gonna bust this President's balls for that? :rulz:
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Don't speak for me and my brothers and sisters.
 
The troops did a great job. The problem was their civilian leadership lied to send them to die and be injured in Iraq under totally false pretenses and into a situation that was unwinnable as designed. To do that is immoral and the worst a POTUS can do. His most sacred trust is not use the lives of our military for his own personal vendettas and political gain.
 
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