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The 100 Best Films of the 1990's (Slant Magazine)

It's not about unpopular opinion and what this group is doing is nothing new. For over half a century there have been groups of "experts" who look for obscure, small foreign/US films and act like they are the greatest films out today. They think if they find a polish movie about some subject and wax romantically about the flick, it justifies their "coolness".

This is nothing new. It's not about whether they disagree with others. Their opinions are abjectly inane. You cannot be taken seriously if you think Safe is Top 10 (or Top 100). You can't be taken seriously if you think Showgirls is anything by an Ed Wood production level of terrible. Johnny Depp's Dead man is not a good movie. I love Johnny Depp, but this was crap. Startship Troopers is B movie.

My next question is - how many of them are fucking Abbas Kiarostami? Three movies in the Top 26 of the 1990s give me a fucking break! This is exactly the same herd mentality that you have railed against.
I have nothing else to say. You clearly only like movies that have good production values, a solid script that doesn't take too many chances or deal with too theoretical of a subject, or try to subvert ideas in an interesting way. . As long as they please you and keep you entertained while watching them, you are content. Try getting into the Criterion Collection. You can learn about Kiarostami and other great movies that way. Try reading some theoretical writings once in a while that may make you think in new ways about movies, most of the Criterions come along with great essays.

But I doubt you'll do any of this or are willing to consider that maybe your opinions are too safe. I don't know, a lot of your posts in here sound like you have some sort of grudge against people who don't just look at movies as entertainment.
 
Don't just look at movies as entertainment? We're not on your block anymore. You better watch who you talk to like that.
 
I don't think many people would disagree with you that Showgirls is terrible, but I think you're off on some of those:

Dead Man is an outstanding movie, IMO. I'd recommend giving it another chance, especially if you haven't seen it in awhile.

Starship Troopers, for the reasons that they gave, remains an awesome satire, a heck of an action movie, and 10x smarter than it was given credit for at the time.

I will say, though, that I agree 100% with their choice to put The Thin Red Line at number 1.

 
You clearly only like movies that have good production values, a solid script that doesn't take too many chances or deal with too theoretical of a subject, or try to subvert ideas in an interesting way

Please post your justification for why Showgirls is anything more than a terribly scripted, terribly acted movie. EB is absolutely horrendous in that movie. A cardboard box could deliver its lines better.
 
Please post your justification for why Showgirls is anything more than a terribly scripted, terribly acted movie. EB is absolutely horrendous in that movie. A cardboard box could deliver its lines better.

You want a justification? Go to Hollywood Boulevard. You want an adrenaline rush it'll be two grand.
 
I'm always confused to see people react so strongly like rj to this list. I know Kurosawa and Varda and Godard are not for everyone, so why is it so inconceivable that others may not share your more mainstream opinions. I go up against this discussing music all the time. You can apply different levels of attention to different types of music/film/art. I try to adjust my expectations based on ambition, so I hold art cinema to a higher standard, and therefore am willing to give higher praise to them when they succeed.
 
Please post your justification for why Showgirls is anything more than a terribly scripted, terribly acted movie. EB is absolutely horrendous in that movie. A cardboard box could deliver its lines better.

It's a stunning satire, mostly of the morally bankrupt "star-is-born" tales. It puts the onus on the viewer (which all great movies do), in this case to try and reconcile why they want Nomi to succeed or fail, all based on preconceived notions of the archetypes of wish fulfillment. Verhoeven isn't just rejecting cinematic good taste, he is making the claim that it's those very rules that are corrupt and ideologically facile. The best scene in the film is when Molly, Nomi's friend, meets her rock-star sexual fantasy and follows him into his hotel room where a violent gang-bang awaits. It's a startling scene, a rude interruption for those who haven't managed to work up any empathy for anyone in the film up to that point. The scene is suitably horrifying, doubly so considering it's the moment that she realizes her own fault in creating a sexual fantasy that was too good to be true, and can't exist in a star-struck caste system in which she's nothing more than a peasant. Plus, it's just a shit load of fun to watch. Eszterhaus provides countless quotable lines.
 
I'm always confused to see people react so strongly like rj to this list. I know Kurosawa and Varda and Godard are not for everyone, so why is it so inconceivable that others may not share your more mainstream opinions. I go up against this discussing music all the time. You can apply different levels of attention to different types of music/film/art. I try to adjust my expectations based on ambition, so I hold art cinema to a higher standard, and therefore am willing to give higher praise to them when they succeed.

Take it upstairs Einstein
 
It's a stunning satire, mostly of the morally bankrupt "star-is-born" tales. It puts the onus on the viewer (which all great movies do), in this case to try and reconcile why they want Nomi to succeed or fail, all based on preconceived notions of the archetypes of wish fulfillment. Verhoeven isn't just rejecting cinematic good taste, he is making the claim that it's those very rules that are corrupt and ideologically facile. The best scene in the film is when Molly, Nomi's friend, meets her rock-star sexual fantasy and follows him into his hotel room where a violent gang-bang awaits. It's a startling scene, a rude interruption for those who haven't managed to work up any empathy for anyone in the film up to that point. The scene is suitably horrifying, doubly so considering it's the moment that she realizes her own fault in creating a sexual fantasy that was too good to be true, and can't exist in a star-struck caste system in which she's nothing more than a peasant. Plus, it's just a shit load of fun to watch. Eszterhaus provides countless quotable lines.

Now, write something without directly copying Slant's review.

Plus, all this could have been done with actually good actors and a decent script. Then maybe it would be deserving of a place on a Top 100 list.
 
Now, write something without directly copying Slant's review.

Plus, all this could have been done with actually good actors and a decent script. Then maybe it would be deserving of a place on a Top 100 list.

But using "bad" actors and a "campy" script falls in line with Verhoeven's aim of questioning cinematic good taste. He's bucking the trend, saying that the things that make these universally accepted "good" movies good don't really matter, and are just there to cover up the fact that they actually have nothing to say. The over-the-top, outlandish acting falls in line with Verhoeven and Eszterhaus' aims, and it makes the actual sincere moments that much more affecting.

And my apologies on using some of Slant's analysis, I haven't seen the movie in two years so I'm a little fuzzy on the plot points and such.
 
Now, write something without directly copying Slant's review.

Plus, all this could have been done with actually good actors and a decent script. Then maybe it would be deserving of a place on a Top 100 list.

I think that may have defeated some of the purpose.
 
I also wanted to add that The Iron Giant (#98) is one of my favorite movies.

The omission that bothers me most is Alphonso Cuaron's A Little Princess.
 
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RJ:

http://www.dvdjournal.com/reviews/s/showgirls_vip.shtml
A preponderance of the criticism heaped on Showgirls on its release was piled on ingénue Elizabeth Berkley in the lead role as dancer Nomi Malone, with reviews scorching the ex-"Saved By the Bell" actress for her lack of acting chops. In retrospect, this is both unfair and completely off-the-mark. The rock-stupid symbolism of her name aside, Nomi is a brilliantly realized character and Berkley's casting was an act of genius. No, she isn't a world-class actress, but she is a competent one, at least by weekly TV standards. But she was utterly out of her league in this movie, jumping from second-banana status on a mediocre teen sitcom to carrying an entire, big-budget Hollywood film on her slender back — which made her not unlike Nomi, who hitchhikes to Las Vegas without any clue of how she'll make it big as a dancer, then finds herself thrust headlong into the back-stabbing, nasty world of big-time Vegas stage productions.

That Berkley was given the role, rather than a name actress with box-office clout, was no accident — like Nomi, Berkley was hungry and willing to do anything asked of her on this film, no matter how degrading, to grasp a little stardom. Her passion as an actress to prove herself through complete personal debasement — from the cheesy, unsexy, exploitive choreography, to her underwear-free costumes and creepy sex scenes — gives her performance a freakish resonance and provides a level of entertainment almost completely separate from the film itself. In his famous deconstruction of Showgirls for the New Yorker, Anthony Lane nailed it when he wrote, "She can't act, but the sight of her trying to act, doing the sorts of things that acting is rumored to consist of, struck me as a far nobler struggle than the boring old I-know-I-can-make-it endeavors of her fictional character."

That Berkley also appears to have been kept out of the loop regarding Showgirls' satirical bent seems quite deliberate — witness the unfortunate Casper Van Dien and Denise Richards in Starship Troopers, who fell victim to Verhoeven's directorial technique of letting some actors in on the joke (in Troopers it was Neil Patrick Harris; here, it's the deliciously smarmy Gershon and MacLachlan) while keeping other actors in the dark to make them look especially earnest and vapid. In Showgirls, that trick served the film beautifully — but it also had the side effect of utterly derailing Berkley's fledgling career when she was torn asunder by critics.

* * *

Part of the reason that audiences may have responded so negatively to Showgirls is that they simply didn't have the reference points to make sense of it. This reviewer, for example, absolutely despised the film on first viewing, thinking it vile, ugly, and just plain badly written. The characters' behaviors often make no sense, and the dialogue frequently strays so far afield from either logic or even normal human speech that it's awe-inspiring — that defining moment, for example, when Nomi and the show's diva, Crystal (Gershon) bond by disclosing that they both like the taste of dog food, or this exchange between the show's stage manager and director:

Marty: Tony, she's all pelvic thrust. She prowls … she's got it.
Tony: I wonder how she got it.
Marty: Well, she certainly didn't learn it.
Tony: She learned it, all right. But they don't teach it in any class.

Part of the problem may lie in that Showgirls is an homage to/amalgam of several classic film genres — the '30s backstage musical, the '60s sexploitation film, and the '90s sexy-lesbians-are-hot-and-scary genre pioneered by Eszterhas — as well as being a satire that's played completely straight. Sold to the public on its release as a sexy flick about topless dancers, audiences were totally unprepared for what they got — an exercise in subversive excess that makes violence sexy and sexuality violent, works overtime to make its non-stop T&A abhorrently non-erotic, and turns the traditional wide-eyed heroine into a frenzied sociopath in need of Thorazine.
 
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It's a stunning satire, mostly of the morally bankrupt "star-is-born" tales. It puts the onus on the viewer (which all great movies do), in this case to try and reconcile why they want Nomi to succeed or fail, all based on preconceived notions of the archetypes of wish fulfillment. Verhoeven isn't just rejecting cinematic good taste, he is making the claim that it's those very rules that are corrupt and ideologically facile. The best scene in the film is when Molly, Nomi's friend, meets her rock-star sexual fantasy and follows him into his hotel room where a violent gang-bang awaits. It's a startling scene, a rude interruption for those who haven't managed to work up any empathy for anyone in the film up to that point. The scene is suitably horrifying, doubly so considering it's the moment that she realizes her own fault in creating a sexual fantasy that was too good to be true, and can't exist in a star-struck caste system in which she's nothing more than a peasant. Plus, it's just a shit load of fun to watch. Eszterhaus provides countless quotable lines.

Give me a fucking break. There is no way this was a satire.

Typical of when you make an historically bad movie you make up an excuse years after the fact. Anyone who believes it is has less than no clue and should never buy any product without someone much less naive than he is.
 
RJ:

http://www.dvdjournal.com/reviews/s/showgirls_vip.shtml
A preponderance of the criticism heaped on Showgirls on its release was piled on ingénue Elizabeth Berkley in the lead role as dancer Nomi Malone, with reviews scorching the ex-"Saved By the Bell" actress for her lack of acting chops. In retrospect, this is both unfair and completely off-the-mark. The rock-stupid symbolism of her name aside, Nomi is a brilliantly realized character and Berkley's casting was an act of genius. No, she isn't a world-class actress, but she is a competent one, at least by weekly TV standards. But she was utterly out of her league in this movie, jumping from second-banana status on a mediocre teen sitcom to carrying an entire, big-budget Hollywood film on her slender back — which made her not unlike Nomi, who hitchhikes to Las Vegas without any clue of how she'll make it big as a dancer, then finds herself thrust headlong into the back-stabbing, nasty world of big-time Vegas stage productions.

That Berkley was given the role, rather than a name actress with box-office clout, was no accident — like Nomi, Berkley was hungry and willing to do anything asked of her on this film, no matter how degrading, to grasp a little stardom. Her passion as an actress to prove herself through complete personal debasement — from the cheesy, unsexy, exploitive choreography, to her underwear-free costumes and creepy sex scenes — gives her performance a freakish resonance and provides a level of entertainment almost completely separate from the film itself. In his famous deconstruction of Showgirls for the New Yorker, Anthony Lane nailed it when he wrote, "She can't act, but the sight of her trying to act, doing the sorts of things that acting is rumored to consist of, struck me as a far nobler struggle than the boring old I-know-I-can-make-it endeavors of her fictional character."

That Berkley also appears to have been kept out of the loop regarding Showgirls' satirical bent seems quite deliberate — witness the unfortunate Casper Van Dien and Denise Richards in Starship Troopers, who fell victim to Verhoeven's directorial technique of letting some actors in on the joke (in Troopers it was Neil Patrick Harris; here, it's the deliciously smarmy Gershon and MacLachlan) while keeping other actors in the dark to make them look especially earnest and vapid. In Showgirls, that trick served the film beautifully — but it also had the side effect of utterly derailing Berkley's fledgling career when she was torn asunder by critics.

* * *

Part of the reason that audiences may have responded so negatively to Showgirls is that they simply didn't have the reference points to make sense of it. This reviewer, for example, absolutely despised the film on first viewing, thinking it vile, ugly, and just plain badly written. The characters' behaviors often make no sense, and the dialogue frequently strays so far afield from either logic or even normal human speech that it's awe-inspiring — that defining moment, for example, when Nomi and the show's diva, Crystal (Gershon) bond by disclosing that they both like the taste of dog food, or this exchange between the show's stage manager and director:

Marty: Tony, she's all pelvic thrust. She prowls … she's got it.
Tony: I wonder how she got it.
Marty: Well, she certainly didn't learn it.
Tony: She learned it, all right. But they don't teach it in any class.

Part of the problem may lie in that Showgirls is an homage to/amalgam of several classic film genres — the '30s backstage musical, the '60s sexploitation film, and the '90s sexy-lesbians-are-hot-and-scary genre pioneered by Eszterhas — as well as being a satire that's played completely straight. Sold to the public on its release as a sexy flick about topless dancers, audiences were totally unprepared for what they got — an exercise in subversive excess that makes violence sexy and sexuality violent, works overtime to make its non-stop T&A abhorrently non-erotic, and turns the traditional wide-eyed heroine into a frenzied sociopath in need of Thorazine.

What abject, revisionist crap.

Sounds like each time Verhoeven has a built excuse whenever knows he's making a shitty movie. It's not that his movies suck. They are all satires.

What crap.

I guess Ed Wood was a satirist as well.
 
Give me a fucking break. There is no way this was a satire.

Typical of when you make an historically bad movie you make up an excuse years after the fact. Anyone who believes it is has less than no clue and should never buy any product without someone much less naive than he is.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure most everybody who sees the movie would say it's a satire. Opinions vary (with a lot of people on complete opposite ends of the spectrum on the film) about whether or not that satire works, but I think if you sit down and watch the movie without the preconceived notions about how much of a financial disaster it was, and its reputation, you will find a movie that actually has a lot going for it.
 
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