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The 2019 College Football Thread ! LSU NATIONAL CHAMPIONS ! CLEMSON SUCKS !!!!!!!!!!!

Did Mack Brown signal the start of a new trend when he iced his own kicker against VT?
 
PhDeac said:
I think the days of UF, FSU, and Miami being dominant programs is over.  Just too much competition for in-state talent.  They can’t build the depth like they used to with UCF, USF, FIU, and FAU out there. Not to mention more programs can recruit nationally, including in FL. I think the most we’ll see is two FL teams staying ranked over the course of a season.

The FL, TX, and CA schools have fallen off. Too many programs and too much competition for in-state talent. The perrennial top programs are one or two program states. Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, LSU, Penn State, Oklahoma, Wisconsin. They can get top in-state talent and can recruit nationally. Even look at Boise State’s roster.  Consistently one of the best G6 programs.  It’s a few ID kids and the rest are almost all CA and TX.
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I couldn’t disagree more with this.

Dominant programs change over time. I think it’s mostly coach related and less geography. Tradition and money also help.

It’s not a bad thing that the state of Florida has so much talent.

It’s been rare for all 3 of FSU, Miami, and UF to be elite all at the same time.

FSU was great with Bowden (until he fell off) and Fisher.

UF was great with Spurrier and Meyer.

Miami was great with Jimmy Johnson, Dennis Erickson, and Larry Coker.

UCF was good because of Scott Frost. Those other FL programs you mentioned are not very good.
 
So how about TX and CA? Is it really a coach thing if coaches settle around 8-9 wins, but fans won't settle for less than regular championships?
 
PhDeac said:
So how about TX and CA? Is it really a coach thing if coaches settle around 8-9 wins, but fans won't settle for less than regular championships?
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15 years ago, it looked like USC and Pete Carroll would rule college football forever.

What do you mean coaches settle around 8-9 wins?
 
Final polls:
2019 (current): UF#7, FSU/Miami UR - No other Florida teams
2018: UF#7, FSU/Miami UR - UCF#11
2017: Miami#13, FSU/UF UR - UCF#6, USF#21
2016: FSU#8, UF#14, Miami #20 - USF#19
2015: FSU#14, UF#25, Miami UR - No other Florida teams
2014: FSU#5, UF/Miami UR - No other Florida teams
2013: FSU#1 (National Champs), UF/Miami UR - UCF#10
2012: UF#9, FSU#10, Miami UR - No other Florida teams
2011: FSU#23, UF/Miami UR - No other Florida teams (yuck)
2010: FSU#17, UF/Miami UR - UCF#21
2009: UF#3, Miami#19, FSU UR - No other Florida teams
2008: UF#1 (National Champs), FSU#21, Miami UR - No other Florida teams
2007: UF#13, FSU/Miami UR - No other Florida teams
2006: UF#1 (National Champs), FSU/Miami UR - No other Florida teams
2005: UF#12, Miami#17, FSU#23 - No other Florida teams
2004: Miami#11, FSU#15, UF UR - No other Florida teams
2003: Miami#5, FSU#11, UF#24 - No other Florida teams
2002: Miami#2, FSU#21, UF UR - No other Florida teams
2001: Miami#1 (National Champs), UF#3, FSU#15 - No other Florida teams
2000: Miami#2, FSU#5, UF#10 - No other Florida teams
1999: FSU#1 (National Champs), UF#12, Miami#15 - No other Florida teams
1998: FSU#3, UF#5, Miami#20 - No other Florida teams
1997: FSU#3, UF#4, Miami UR - No other Florida teams
1996: UF#1 (National Champs), FSU#3, Miami#14 - No other Florida teams
1995: UF#2, FSU#4, Miami#20 - No other Florida teams
1994: FSU#4, Miami#6, UF#7 - No other Florida teams
1993: FSU#1 (National Champs), UF#5, Miami#15 - No other Florida teams
1992: FSU#2, Miami#3, UF#10 - No other Florida teams
1991: Miami#1 (National Champs), FSU#4, UF#7 - No other Florida teams
1990: Miami#3, FSU#4, UF#13 - No other Florida teams
1989: Miami#1 (National Champs), FSU#3, UF UR - No other Florida teams
1988: Miami#2, FSU#3, UF UR - No other Florida teams
1987: Miami#1 (National Champs), FSU#2, UF UR - No other Florida teams

I'll stop there for my sanity.

IMO, what that shows is:
UCF has made strides recently, and it makes sense to think that is negatively impacting UF/FSU/Miami, to a degree
Years when all 3 of UF/FSU/Miami have been ranked: 2016, 2005, 2003, 1998-2001, 1990-1996 - So it has been like 15 years since this was a normal occurrence
The bigger story is that Miami has pretty much sucked since 2005... I don't think that's UCF/USF/etc... That is self-inflicted
UF/FSU don't seem to be impacted by UCF/USF/etc... When they have had struggles it has been due to shitty coaches

Anything else to take from this?

Ph... I think you and I are clouded by how good UF/FSU/Miami were in the 1990s... It is probably our age. As a 41 year old (I think you are a year or two older), I really got into college football around 1990. Turns out that those were the glory days for college football in the state of Florida.
 
Need to hear more about the last time perennial power Wisconsin seriously competed for a national championship.

Also, most of Wisconsin's best players are from out of state, which is true of a lot of those programs. They're first and second string QB are from NY and KS. Jonathan Taylor is from NJ. Their best WR is a 3-star accused rapist from from Macon, GA with offers from Miami and Vanderbilt. Their two best OL are from Wisconsin. Their best LB is from WI who might be a mid-round pick (might not). Basically everyone on their very good defense is from out of state.
 
DeacsATS said:
15 years ago, it looked like USC and Pete Carroll would rule college football forever.

What do you mean coaches settle around 8-9 wins?
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I mean good coaches at former power programs will end up with around 8-9 wins most seasons. But fans who think they should be championship contenders every year could call for their firing. Frank Solich is a great example of this.

Your chart helps make my overall point that it’s hard for more than two FL teams to be good at once. USF and UCF definitely have hurt Miami. Miami used to have Central Florida and South Florida all to themselves. Tampa Bay was the only large metro area in the state without a D1-A football program until 18 years ago. And now South Florida has two more program in FIU and FAU.
 
Solich followed a legend which is always a bad idea. His last year was also an unmitigated shitshow.

8.5 wins per season is definitely a fireable offense at a bigtime program, and it should be for $4 million per year.
 
Miami just doesn't have a sustainable model for football success. Any kid intersted in playing his home games 45 minutes from campus is an idiot.
 
PhDeac said:
I mean good coaches at former power programs will end up with around 8-9 wins most seasons. But fans who think they should be championship contenders every year could call for their firing. Frank Solich is a great example of this.

Your chart helps make my overall point that it’s hard for more than two FL teams to be good at once. USF and UCF definitely have hurt Miami. Miami used to have Central Florida and South Florida all to themselves. Tampa Bay was the only large metro area in the state without a D1-A football program until 18 years ago. And now South Florida has two more program in FIU and FAU.
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Your point was that it was a new phenomenon due to the rise of UCF and others. When, in reality, having all 3 FL programs firing on all cylinders at once is more the outlier.

USF sucks. They ended the season ranked twice (@19 and @21).
UCF probably also sucks, but they've had a nice run the last few years after being in the abyss.
FIU and FAU mean zero to UF/Miami/FSU... Do you think they have EVER gotten a recruit over those programs?

I understand your point about depth... I don't know enough to argue otherwise. It makes sense that more FL schools would hurt the depth at the bigger schools due to opportunities for playing time. But I don't think that's the reason why Miami has been dogshit for 15 years, why UF was mediocre under Muschamp and McElwein, or why FSU sucks under Taggart.

I used to think that fans calling for coaches to get fired were mostly being ridiculous... But when you see what a good coaching staff can do, it is hard to argue against paying up. Urban Meyer will be a huge success wherever he ends up. Oklahoma has surpassed Texas due to Stoops (and now Riley)... That can change quickly if Riley goes to the NFL and Herman continues to make progress at UT. Fisher is likely going to have A&M competing for the playoff in a year or two. Shit, look at what James Franklin has done at Penn State... That program was dead.

The fact that our basketball program is a dumpster fire also helped me come around to the fact that coaching matters a lot in college athletics. Look at Chris Mack at Louisville and Chris Beard at fucking Texas Tech.

FSU's problem is Taggart.
Miami's problem has been a long list of shitty coaches.
UF looks like they are back on track w/ Mullen.

And now you have me just rambling.
 
If by “new” you mean an situation that has grown more prominent over the last 20 years. Yeah that’s what I meant.

The main point was about programs from one or two team states being dominant. FL, TX, and CA are arguments in the other direction.
 
May be a dumb question but why doesn't Miami try to build a smaller stadium closer to/on campus? Is it because their best-case model includes having massive home games with easier access for non-alumni that happen to live in Miami?
 
does Miami pay a lease to play at whatever that stadium's called today? Even the Orange Bowl was quite a jaunt from campus. My sister went to the U in the last couple of years of the OB and it was a real pain in the ass to get there -- take the monorail from outside campus then a bus. Then they switched to the other stadium and a lot of kids said fuck that.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
May be a dumb question but why doesn't Miami try to build a smaller stadium closer to/on campus? Is it because their best-case model includes having massive home games with easier access for non-alumni that happen to live in Miami?
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It's because most of their bandwagon fans have no idea where the campus is.
 
How many players is Miami actually losing to UCF or USF? Probably not many. The bigger issues are that they've made some poor coaching hires and that recruiting is much more national in general than it was back in the 90s and before. Even now, all three of the big florida schools still recruit at a high level.
 
Have you checked into land prices in Coral Gables recently ? The school is landlocked and there's no 20-acre sites nearby for purchase anyway.
 
BiffTannen said:
Have you checked into land prices in Coral Gables recently ? The school is landlocked and there's no 20-acre sites nearby for purchase anyway.
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Exactly, and I think they had to beg and plead to allow the city to let them build a much smaller (7,000 seat) basketball arena about 15 years ago.
 
PhDeac said:
If by “new” you mean an situation that has grown more prominent over the last 20 years. Yeah that’s what I meant.

The main point was about programs from one or two team states being dominant. FL, TX, and CA are arguments in the other direction.
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This is what you wrote:
PhDeac said:
I think the days of UF, FSU, and Miami being dominant programs is over.  Just too much competition for in-state talent.  They can’t build the depth like they used to with UCF, USF, FIU, and FAU out there. Not to mention more programs can recruit nationally, including in FL. I think the most we’ll see is two FL teams staying ranked over the course of a season.
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I disagree with statement #1, that the days of UF/FSU/Miami being dominant programs are over. I absolutely think UF & FSU can compete for national championships... And I think the fact that they are located in the state of Florida is helpful in that regard.

I also disagree with the last statement, that the most we'll see is two FL teams staying ranked over the course of a season. But that's more nuanced. I think it has been rare, outside of the 1990s, for all 3 Florida schools to be ranked at the same time. But I don't see any structural reason why it can't happen, aside from Miami sucking.

So your point is that Florida schools have been off and on shitty over the last 20 years because UCF has been off and on good for the last 10? I can get on board with things being tougher for Miami, but FSU & UF are "elite" programs where the fanbase should absolutely expect to be competing for the playoff in most years.

I think your main point about 1 or 2 program states is silly. I don't think the success of a team is based on arbitrary state lines... It is more regional. Oklahoma and Texas compete for the same kids. UF/FSU/Clemson/Alabama/LSU/Auburn/etc all compete in the Southeast (and nationwide, to a degree). As Biff stated... You mentioned Wisconsin (kind of a weird choice), but they recruit from all over the place... Not just Wisconsin. I view things more as a balance of power within conferences, with some overlap between the ACC/SEC due to geography (and the rise of Clemson alongside FSU from the ACC).
 
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