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The Case for Nathan Hatch

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jhmd2000

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Let's assume that most reasonable observers can stipulate that athletics have been allowed to wither on the vine and that no rescue attempt is in the cards. Can someone who follows such things help put forth the case in favor of retaining Hatch? In the big picture, is this cake worth the sit-ups?

The Hatch Regime in a nutshell: If everyone who was alleged to have attended the last home basketball game gave a ten dollar bill to the same student, it would almost pay for one year's tuition. For one person. Almost.
 
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Yes, because the success of a college president should be evaluated on basketball/football attendance.

I never understood these "Hatch is anti-sports arguments."

Over his tenure, he has done a lot to invest in sports at Wake: new football stadium, tennis courts, baseball stadium, Sutton Center, paying a lot of money to retain the football coach , etc. Additionally, there is $95 million dollars earmarked in the "Wake Will Campaign" for athletics.

Also, most of us are not going to have access to the "bigger picture" in regards to the future of the athletic department or university strategy.
 
GardenStateDeac said:
Yes, because the success of a college president should be evaluated on basketball/football attendance.

I never understood these "Hatch is anti-sports arguments."

Over his tenure, he has done a lot to invest in sports at Wake: new football stadium, tennis courts, baseball stadium, Sutton Center, paying a lot of money to retain the football coach , etc. Additionally, there is $95 million dollars earmarked in the "Wake Will Campaign" for athletics.

Also, most of us are not going to have access to the "bigger picture" in regards to the future of the athletic department or university strategy.
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I'm just trying to get a sense if people are otherwise happy with his tenure. I honestly don't know.
 
He loves Notre Dame football. Unfortunately, his paycheck says Wake Forest. Plus, someone mentioned on another post about transfers to Wake would have to have qualified out of HS. That kills our opportunity for a quick fix with a couple of JUCOs.
 
GardenStateDeac said:
Yes, because the success of a college president should be evaluated on basketball/football attendance.

I never understood these "Hatch is anti-sports arguments."

Over his tenure, he has done a lot to invest in sports at Wake: new football stadium, tennis courts, baseball stadium, Sutton Center, paying a lot of money to retain the football coach , etc. Additionally, there is $95 million dollars earmarked in the "Wake Will Campaign" for athletics.

Also, most of us are not going to have access to the "bigger picture" in regards to the future of the athletic department or university strategy.
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This. I have a really hard time believing that Hatch doesn't care about sports at Wake. I have had two interactions with him as a student. The first interaction he talked about some boxing competition they had (at Notre Dame) and the second was in my senior year when I was working for Graylyn I drove him down to the airport in Charlotte. The first thing he wanted to talk about was Wake Forest athletics and how excited he was about the season (I forget if it was football or basketball but this was in 2008 so I think it was football). He tipped really well at the end of the ride as well. I just don't see how it would be in his personal interest to have Wake bad at athletics. He knows that being good draws national attention to the school and him...I just don't think he has as much control over athletic decisions that we think he does.
 
ironwill24 said:
This. I have a really hard time believing that Hatch doesn't care about sports at Wake. I have had two interactions with him as a student. The first interaction he talked about some boxing competition they had (at Notre Dame) and the second was in my senior year when I was working for Graylyn I drove him down to the airport in Charlotte. The first thing he wanted to talk about was Wake Forest athletics and how excited he was about the season (I forget if it was football or basketball but this was in 2008 so I think it was football). He tipped really well at the end of the ride as well. I just don't see how it would be in his personal interest to have Wake bad at athletics. He knows that being good draws national attention to the school and him...I just don't think he has as much control over athletic decisions that we think he does.
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Did he refer to his school's team as Notre Dame in private, or does he save that gem for public appearances?
 
Y'all are a tough crowd.

The man's job is to run successfully Wake Forest University. It is one of the top 20-something undergrad degrees in the country, with highly ranked professional graduate schools. Other than his inexplicable and continuing failure to ask me for my opinion of his AD's basketball coach, what is there to criticize?
 
1976Deac said:
Y'all are a tough crowd.

The man's job is to run successfully Wake Forest University. It is one of the top 20-something undergrad degrees in the country, with highly ranked professional graduate schools. Other than his inexplicable and continuing failure to ask me for my opinion of his AD's basketball coach, what is there to criticize?
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I understand that some people don't view it as a problem, but $60,000.00 per year tuition isn't For Humanity. It's exceptionally hard to reconcile the height of that fence with a humanitarian mission.

But I take it you are happy with his leadership, then? It seems like most people are, since most of the angst is confined to the field of play.

With exceptional charity to Year Zero, Years 1 & 2 were Bzz problems. Years 3&4 were Wellman problems. I think Year(s) 5 and 6 of decay are on Hatch; I'm just looking for opinions on his overall body of work. Punitive tuition levels (sitting on an endowment of that size) show either a complete disconnect with the families that make up your student body or a conscious decision to cut bait on the first 150 years of your institutional identity. If so, that's unfortunate. We already have a Dook in this State. We don't need Dook lite.
 
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I appreciate the sentiment. I was one of the middle-class kids from North Carolina that attended Wake Forest even though I wasn't Baptist.

I believe, however, the change we lament is neither new nor barely attributable to Hatch. That ship sailed about two years after James Ralph Scales retired. Each president we've had since Scales has done his best to turn Wake into what it has become now. Seems to me that Hatch is just doing a good job of continuing the evolution.

In fairness I have to acknowledge that I cannot think of anything I own that has appreciated anywhere near as much as my Wake degrees.
 
1976Deac said:
Y'all are a tough crowd.

The man's job is to run successfully Wake Forest University. It is one of the top 20-something undergrad degrees in the country, with highly ranked professional graduate schools. Other than his inexplicable and continuing failure to ask me for my opinion of his AD's basketball coach, what is there to criticize?
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Let's start with the lack of integrity that is plainly evident in his administration. He either has no integrity himself or he does not have the capacity to impose/enforce his standards upon his employees. Either option is unacceptable. Too hell with sports, the man is doing damage to the reputation of MSD.
 
thedeacfan said:
Let's start with the lack of integrity that is plainly evident in his administration. He either has no integrity himself or he does not have the capacity to impose/enforce his standards upon his employees. Either option is unacceptable. Too hell with sports, the man is doing damage to the reputation of MSD.
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What year did you graduate from Wake?
 
jhmd2000 said:
I understand that some people don't view it as a problem, but $60,000.00 per year tuition isn't For Humanity. It's exceptionally hard to reconcile the height of that fence with a humanitarian mission.

But I take it you are happy with his leadership, then? It seems like most people are, since most of the angst is confined to the field of play.

With exceptional charity to Year Zero, Years 1 & 2 were Bzz problems. Years 3&4 were Wellman problems. I think Year(s) 5 and 6 of decay are on Hatch; I'm just looking for opinions on his overall body of work. Punitive tuition levels (sitting on an endowment of that size) show either a complete disconnect with the families that make up your student body or a conscious decision to cut bait on the first 150 years of your institutional identity. If so, that's unfortunate. We already have a Dook in this State. We don't need Dook lite.
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Contrary to the belief of many, Wake Forest should not be pandering to middle and working class people in NC to perpetuate a great "sports culture." Wake should be admitting the highest quality students possible from around the world (the percentage of students from NC is over 20% which is much higher than our peers in regards to their home state populations). As a tuition-driven institution, having a portion of the student body paying full tuition allows us to offer generous aid packages and meet full need. Tuition is on par with our peer schools (and yes, our peer schools are other national research universities--not High Point or Elon). You obviously know nothing of the economics of higher education and should avoid such arguments.

If we take a look away from sports, Wake has done some really great things in the past few years--the Career Services office is nationally recognized, Billion Dollar capital campaign, new construction, LOTS OF INVESTMENT IN ATHLETICS, etc.

There are many things at play in regards to Wellman's job and the direct of the Athletic Department, but it is idiotic to simplify it to "Hatch is killing our athletics."
 
So we should pander to rich kids who can pay full price regardless of their academic ability?

:noSAT
 
He clearly stated we should be admitting the highest quality students possible.
 
He also said, "As a tuition-driven institution, having a portion of the student body paying full tuition allows us to offer generous aid packages and meet full need."
 
Right, so we can attract other high quality students that would not, otherwise, be able to attend if not for a generous scholarship package. His way of doing that is to not admit lesser students with lesser income just because they are local, for the sake of trying to boost our fan support at athletic events.
 
Tobacco Road said:
He clearly stated we should be admitting the highest quality students possible.
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Why not just line them up reverse alphabetically by height? You either want the best students OR the ones who would even consider applying to a school with a 60,000 per year ticket. You can talk about generous aid packages all you want (let's not forget how often "aid" takes the form of loans), you're going to get Ty Kraniks (spelling?) and America's Most Well-Funded Home Videos applying while UNC and UVA get the kids who perform well on standardized tests. Sorry, but that's just the truth.
 
Tobacco Road said:
Right, so we can attract other high quality students that would not, otherwise, be able to attend if not for a generous scholarship package. His way of doing that is to not admit lesser students with lesser income just because they are local, for the sake of trying to boost our fan support at athletic events.
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That doesn't address my point. How then do we guarantee having kids who can pay full price?
 
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