You could have made this point much more credibly by dropping the reference to "pandering to middle and working class people in NC." That's really beyond the pale.
The Case for Nathan Hatch
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You could have made this point much more credibly by dropping the reference to "pandering to middle and working class people in NC." That's really beyond the pale.
By building really fancy dorms and catering to the desires and needs of rich people. We have been doing that the last 25 years. I remember when the new dorms north of Wait were built and I toured them with Bill Starling. I asked him if they weren't a bit fancy for Wake and he said we have to build these to compete for the kids who can afford Wake and want luxury. It has just gotten more pronounced over the years. Wake is doing all it can to attract kids from upper middle and upper class families.
That's an interesting point to make for someone who likely paid 100,000+ for an undergraduate degree. My wife and I BOTH went to college (UVa and UNC), and LL.M. (mine) and (M.A.) hers, all for less than you went to Wake. You paid too much for that muffler, bro.
Tobacco Road
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I don't think you have a point. Not trying to be a jerk, just not sure how I am being asked to support an argument that I don't think has been made. He never said we should pander to rich kids regardless of their academic ability.
We don't guarantee "full price" kids on an individual basis. He is just saying we don't pander to local middle/lower income families for the sake of our sports culture. If we expand our focus, hopefully to get the best students, a portion of that will likely include higher income (a portion with also still be low/middle). That spectrum of income will provide a bit more higher income students.
I am not sure that I agree that strategy will make a significant dent as far as the overall cost to the "typical" student, but it is certainly not the same as saying we should pander to rich kids. I assume (yeah, I know what that does), he is also saying that we should try to expand our footprint for the purpose of attracting more "high quality" students than we would get from a smaller local pool.
I guess I am just missing something here, but it seems to me you are arguing against a point that has not been made.
I personally believe that we should be working to maintain and grows our local roots, relationships and support.
We don't guarantee "full price" kids on an individual basis. He is just saying we don't pander to local middle/lower income families for the sake of our sports culture. If we expand our focus, hopefully to get the best students, a portion of that will likely include higher income (a portion with also still be low/middle). That spectrum of income will provide a bit more higher income students.
I am not sure that I agree that strategy will make a significant dent as far as the overall cost to the "typical" student, but it is certainly not the same as saying we should pander to rich kids. I assume (yeah, I know what that does), he is also saying that we should try to expand our footprint for the purpose of attracting more "high quality" students than we would get from a smaller local pool.
I guess I am just missing something here, but it seems to me you are arguing against a point that has not been made.
I personally believe that we should be working to maintain and grows our local roots, relationships and support.
thedeacfan
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From what to what... specifically?
BacktoBack
Doctor Of Cerumen
Let's be honest...is there a difference in being ranked 25 v/s 35 ? We aren't passing the twenty or so schools ahead of us. They are established entities. I'd personally accept a small drop in the rankings to be more true to our roots. That, to me, would involve a commitment to middle and lower class kids from NC. I'll pass on attempts at being Duke lite.
Strickland33
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Yes, there is a difference. That's the difference between a regionally and nationally-recognized private university, which is a big deal. 25 for a school like Wake is huge.
And true to what roots exactly? When, exactly, was Wake ever particularly committed to middle and lower class kids from NC. It might not have been as exclusive as it is now, but I don't think the school was going out of its way to be an elite school for NC's less elite...
And true to what roots exactly? When, exactly, was Wake ever particularly committed to middle and lower class kids from NC. It might not have been as exclusive as it is now, but I don't think the school was going out of its way to be an elite school for NC's less elite...
GardenStateDeac
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My point was not that we should lower the bar for wealthy people--I was just stating the fact that at any school part of the student body will subsidize another part. This is just a fact. This gives us more resources to fund better quality students with scholarships and need-based aid(and especially lower income students). Why would anyone argue against this? How is this a bad thing? Stellar students at the top public and private high schools are often not financial aid applicants. There is a correlation to these things and income.
And for those making the SAT optional jokes--if there was actually anything that benefitted lower/working class kids, it is this. Wake's applicant pool is much more socioeconomically and ethnically diverse. Additionally, the pool of NC kids is more diverse (within NC too) and stronger than ever.
In this world "staying true to our roots" means a lack of progress. That is such a toxic mentality--if we are not progressing, then what are we doing? We are regressing. And for what? So there is lots of local support for our sports team? To not become "Duke Lite"? This is idiotic. Wake Forest should be aiming to better itself, make itself more accessible for students, increase the academic quality of the student body, and try to make a bigger ding in the world.
Strickland33
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Why did you quote my post? It seems like we agree. Wake is obviously making itself better. Accessibility will come as the university continues to boost its profile.
Outside of your second paragraph, in particularly the unfounded (at least to my knowledge) correlation between low SES/ethnic diversity and the move to optional-SAT in Wake admissions, I agree with you completely.
I was responding to BacktoBack who asked if there was a difference between 25 and 35. There obviously is.
West End Deac
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Love you, jhmd, but this is bullshit. Your post was antagonistic as all get out. Own it, brother.
BacktoBack
Doctor Of Cerumen
BC, BU, Ga Tech, William and Mary, UNC, nyu, tufts, michigan. All just behind Wake. I'd say those are national universities. Not a slouch in the bunch. I'd be ok in that group.
Wake has historically had a much higher percentage of students from NC than we currently do. I enjoyed attending a top notch school not far from where I grew up that at the time was a great value. Wake has tried more and more to separate itself from the state of NC. Just don't be surprised when your alumni all move away and you alienate yourself from the local community so much that no one attends any athletic events.
Wake has historically had a much higher percentage of students from NC than we currently do. I enjoyed attending a top notch school not far from where I grew up that at the time was a great value. Wake has tried more and more to separate itself from the state of NC. Just don't be surprised when your alumni all move away and you alienate yourself from the local community so much that no one attends any athletic events.
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BacktoBack
Doctor Of Cerumen
No one is saying we shouldn't try and better ourselves. I think we can offer a top notch education and not pander to some BS rankings. Each school must have identity. What is ours? Take Duke rejects?
Strickland33
Well-known member
Is this actually the case?
BacktoBack
Doctor Of Cerumen
You tell me. The Wake of my time is not the Wake of today. I would assume if we don't care where students are from we'd get a bunch of kids who want to live in or around nc and couldn't go to Duke. I mean in your ranking world Duke is much higher than Wake. Am I wrong? I honestly don't know what we attract these days...
Caturdayredux
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One of my friends is a college counselor in Greenwich. Greenwich people pay him big money to get their kids into top schools (he weaseled his way into Princeton and now charges $10,000 for his "secrets"). I stopped by his office the other day and on the wall were pennants from all the Ivy League schools, Duke, MIT, CalTech, NW, Chicago, etc and sure enough right next to them was WFU. There was no UNC, UVA, Rice or Emory. In the past 10 years Wake placed a lot of people at the most prestigious firms in the world and the powers that be in those companies took notice and want their kids to look at WFU. Coupled with a top 25 ranking and Wake is getting applicants who want to matriculate who previously may only have applied to Ivies.
That said, of the BCS ranked in the top 25 of the USNWR, Wake's athletic department is in the worst shape by far. Thanks Ron.
That said, of the BCS ranked in the top 25 of the USNWR, Wake's athletic department is in the worst shape by far. Thanks Ron.
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I obviously have a point of view, which is that Wake should be vaguely aware of the people it is turning off at $60,000.00 a year. If "Wake" doesn't think they need them, fine, but I think they're wrong. I'm trying to get a sense if others share my concern.
RChildress107
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As someone posted earlier until at least the early-mid eighties. That accounts for about 80% of our history.