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The Difference Between Liberalism & Leftism

myDeaconmyhand

myDeaconmyhand

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https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/06/the-difference-between-liberalism-and-leftism

There are generalizations you have to look past, but I think this article from 2017 clarifies the philosophical distinction between moderate Democrats and "Bernie Bros"

"It is not simply a disagreement over tactics among people who share ideals. The two sets of ideals are different, and come from two entirely different worldviews. The core divergence in these worldviews is in their beliefs about the nature of contemporary political and economic institutions. The difference here is not “how quickly these institutions should change,” but whether changes to them should be fundamental structural changes or not."

"...Liberals believe that the economic and political system is a machine that has broken down and needs fixing. Leftists believe that the machine is not “broken.” Rather, it is working perfectly well; the problem is that it is a death machine designed to chew up human lives. You don’t fix the death machine, you smash it to bits..."
 
This is an important distinction, and probably better gets at the source of disagreement between me (an idiot) and all the liberals (smarter than me) telling me that I have to vote for a democrat. I'm not a reformist. And two 8 year terms for centrist democratic presidents have been pretty persuasive in proving the dangers of reform.

"...Liberals believe that the economic and political system is a machine that has broken down and needs fixing. Leftists believe that the machine is not “broken.” Rather, it is working perfectly well; the problem is that it is a death machine designed to chew up human lives. You don’t fix the death machine, you smash it to bits..."
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This is how activists talk about policing and the prison industrial complex. Prisons and police departments aren't "broken." They function exactly as intended. We have been trying reform in third way politics and all it has brought is a burgeoning problem of over-policing and mass incarceration. People also wrongly believe that mass incarceration is only the result of right wing, conservative politics.

So liberals say that I have to support democrats no matter what, because it is the best way to move the country toward more progressive politics. But history has shown that there is an equal chance that our current political situation ends in some "great" compromise where we have some giant omnibus spending bill that funds more police, more police training, more new prisons, and more ways to criminalize marginalized people (sex workers, poor and POC gun owners, etc).
 
So how does staying at home in November while Republicans win helping meet leftist goals?
 
The problem with many Bernie Bros is that reality is irrelevant. Those who voted for Jill Stein or stayed home in 2016 helped give us Trump, but you blame others. Hillary sucked, but throwing tantrums helped give us Trump

It will take more than one presidency just to come back to where the US was environmentally. Progress was being made towards a living wage. That has been destroyed. Regaining our place in an increasingly small world will take time and a succession of reasonable POTUS.

The US economy and political nature is so huge and so intermingled that you can't just kill it and start over in one fell swoop like Bernie Bros think is possible.
 
Shocking that the establishment isn't throwing their support behind candidates that agree with this philosophy.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Shocking that the establishment isn't throwing their support behind candidates that agree with this philosophy.
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Has to feel good to admit that "the establishment" isn't actually a pragmatic sensible mindset, but a collection of capitalist hoarding interests. Once you acknowledge the outsized political influence of a few people with a lot of money, current events are easier to understand.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Has to feel good to admit that "the establishment" isn't actually a pragmatic sensible mindset, but a collection of capitalist hoarding interests. Once you acknowledge the outsized political influence of a few people with a lot of money, current events are easier to understand.
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All progressives understand this. But realists understand it's a process and can't be implemented overnight like Bernie Bros expect.

You can't "let the perfect be the enemy of the good".
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Has to feel good to admit that "the establishment" isn't actually a pragmatic sensible mindset, but a collection of capitalist hoarding interests. Once you acknowledge the outsized political influence of a few people with a lot of money, current events are easier to understand.
Click to expand...
Actually The establishment is a pragmatic sensible mindset. its lunatic radicals like you who are the danger.
 
politically pragmatic, sure, but with center right policies

at the end of the day, the economic policies of GWB and Obama were pretty much the same
 
Yeah. Same result amirite?
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
politically pragmatic, sure, but with center right policies

at the end of the day, the economic policies of GWB and Obama were pretty much the same
Click to expand...

Not at all. W supported tax cuts. Obama realized that was stupid.

Obama supported minimum/living wage increases. W didn't.

Obama supported stronger EPA. W opposed . Yes, this impacts business.

Obama really wanted Medicare for all, but took a small step. This has a lot to with economics. W didn't even try.

W wanted to privatize Social Security. Obama steadfastly opposed it.

Obama supported high paying clean energy. W opposed it.

Obama created the Consumer Protection Bureau to defend the people against predatory bank practices. W's hands off policies almost led to a depression.

Those are just a few.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
If you're hungry but demanding the entire pizza it makes far more sense to take four slices instead of eating zero.
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A very naive and reductive take common from the people claiming to be "realists". How many of these people in the black do you believe have historically received "4 slices" of whatever it is they need, as opposed to say, experiencing the greatest income inequality since the gilded age. A real pragmatic would realize that many if not most people are disenfranchised and abandoned by the back and forth give and take incrementalism.
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hm, that map and your use of it here sure makes an argument that Bernie Bros decided to let Trump win rather than eat some pizza
 
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"You don't fix the death machine, you smash it to bits."

What specifically does this mean? What are you wanting to replace the current system with? Can you point to a country in the world today that is fully using the system you ideally want to use to replace the current "death machine"?
 
Lets be specific. African Americans, whom Democrats claim to have the best interests of, lost HALF their wealth in the great recession and subprime mortgage crisis. The subprime mortgage crisis could have been prevented if Glass Steagal had not been repealed by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (signed into law by Bill Clinton). Black Americans to this day have not recovered their lost wealth.

Just recently, 17 Democrat Senators voted for the CRAPO bill to neuter the Dodd-Frank Wall St reform act which was passed in fucking reaction to the mortgage crisis. A specific portion of the CRAPO bill blocks the CFBP from collecting data on racial profiling and discrimination in predatory loans, you know those discriminatory toxic loans which helped cause African Americans to lose 50% of their goddamned wealth.

When I posted my outrage about this on this board of pragmatic, moderate liberals I got a big fucking "meh" along with "compromise is good" and "investment banks are constituents too!" If you shallow, surface level starbucks liberals are the pragmatic incrementalists, then double fuck pragmatism. You have no fucking clue.
 
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