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The Difference Between Liberalism & Leftism

Reading this thread is like looking at a bizarro version of the bkf theory of why Trump won in 2016 (far-left Hillary forces rural rubes to vote for Trump), or the jhmd theory of how to end poverty (two-parent families solve everything). This thread: if only Dems ran far-left (or even socialist) candidates in red states and backed them fully with money and ads, instead of selling out to corporate-owned centrists, no doubt they'd win and our problems would be solved. As for the idea that liberals don't frequently shoot themselves in the foot by either not voting or throwing their vote to third-party candidates if the Dem candidate doesn't meet their standards of perfection, look no further than the 2000 election. Ralph Nader drew nearly 3 million votes, and there's little doubt that had he not been on the ballot, Gore would have won the election. Hence, no Dubya, no Cheney, no Rumsfeld, no Iraq War, better response to Katrina in New Orleans, more pro-environment policies, etc.

Establishment Dems already run left on the most divisive social issues like abortion, same sex marriage, trans rights protections. Then establishment Dems take the unpopularity of those social issue(among conservatives) and pretend that populist economic stances and isolationist foreign policy would be similarly unpopular, for some reason, when historical research and polling data shows they aren't connected.

You know damn well that much of the Republican base (Democratic as well) loyally supports their party as part of their identity, not out of some strict ideological adherence to the platform.
 
You're a key contributor to the terribleness and you can't seem to get it through your thick skull.
You have no clue, and your cyclical reasoning is idiotic. I support and canvas for progressive primary candidates and local political initiatives. I always vote the most progressive candidate on the ballot, even when the only option is a shitlib centrist. I have never voted 3rd party in a major election and I probably never will.
 
Saw this and thought of you guys:

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This article does a good job of breaking down the debate between the liberals/centrists and leftists:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/americas-brand-of-capitalism-is-incompatible-with-democracy.html

One group — comprised of comparative politics scholars, liberal pundits, and NeverTrump conservatives — have their eyes fixed on Donald Trump. They see the moral cowardice of a Republican elite that declined to deny an illiberal demagogue their nomination, or to abandon him in the general election, or to let the investigation into his campaign proceed unimpeded. They observe a president who relentlessly assails the independence of federal law enforcement, the legitimacy of adversarial media, and the veracity of official election results — and a conservative base that takes his lies to be self-evident. And, pulsing beneath it all, they discern the rise of a hyperpartisanship that’s leading each party’s elected officials to eviscerate informal constraints on their authority — and each party’s voters, to believe that the other side has no legitimate claim to power.

In these complaints, the democracy movement (as my colleague Jonathan Chait has dubbed it) sees all the telltale signs of a bad case of norm-erosion. Democracies can’t live on laws alone; they also require adherence to certain informal rules that correct for the inevitable flaws in any Constitution’s design, and protect against the threat of charismatic leaders consolidating power. Thus, to heal our republic, and immunize it against future strains of the same virus, several liberal thinkers have called for the formation of bipartisan coalitions, united in defense of democratic norms and the rule of law. In their view, the threat that Trump poses is so grave and unique, ideologues on both sides of the aisle should now prioritize maintaining a rule-based order over winning policy battles, so as to safeguard their freedom to settle such disputes democratically in the future.

But there is a second opinion.

Several social democratic (and/or, democratic socialist) thinkers, examining the patient from a few steps to the democracy movement’s left, have had their eyes drawn to a different set of symptoms. They see state and federal legislators who routinely slash taxes on the wealthy, and services for the poor, in defiance of their constituents’ wishes; regulatory agencies that serve as training grounds for the firms they’re meant to police; a Supreme Court that’s forever expanding the rights of corporations, and restricting those of organized labor; a criminal-justice system that won’t prosecute bankers for laundering drug money, but will dole out life sentences to small-time crack dealers; a central bank that has the resources to bail out financial firms, but not the homeowners whom they exploit; a Pentagon that can wage multitrillion-dollar wars that exacerbate the very problems they were supposed to solve — and still get rewarded with a higher budget — even as the Housing Department asks the working poor to pay higher rent for worse accommodations; and, seething beneath all of these defects, disparities in the distribution of private wealth so vast and consequential, the nation’s super-rich have come to enjoy an average life expectancy 15 years longer than its poor.

In these grisly conditions, social democrats see a textbook case of malignant capitalism. Democracies cannot survive on norms alone. When markets are left under-regulated — and workers, unorganized — the corporate sector becomes a cancerous growth, expanding until it dominates politics and civil society. An ever-greater share of economic gains concentrates in ever-fewer hands, while the barriers to converting private wealth into public power grow fewer and farther between. Politicians become unresponsive to popular preferences and needs. Voters lose faith in elections — and then, a strongman steps forward to say that he, alone, can fix it.

All this contraindicates the democracy movement’s prescription: If our republic’s true sickness is its inegalitarian economic system, then that illness won’t be cured by cross-ideological coalitions. Quite the contrary: What’s needed is a movement that mobilizes working people in numbers large enough to demand a new deal from capital. Thus, if the liberal intelligentsia wishes to save American democracy, it should devote the lion’s share of its energies to brainstorming how such a movement can be brought into being — and what changes that movement should make to our nation’s political economy, once it takes power.
 
Although the top tiers are undertaxed and limits absolutely need to be put on earnings of senior management of publicly traded companies. However, you aren't going to have great innovation without great rewards. This is what creates new, decent paying jobs.

We need a living wage (adjusted to region), reasonable mobility, Medicare for All (with additions possible). We need a new uptick in unions. The demise of unions is a major, direct cause of wage stagnation. Just having unions increased non-union wages.

However, you don't have extremist left to be progressive.
 
what the hell is a centrist in the US for the purposes of these survey questions? 40% (more than left or right) of "centrists" say "a strong leader who does not have to bother with a legislature is “fairly good” or “very good" - what a joke
It's a survey result. For the purposes of the research, "centrists" are people who self identify as belonging near the center of a two dimensional scale between liberal and conservative.

"The survey asks respondents to place themselves on a spectrum from far left to center to far right."...
"...Respondents who put themselves at the center of the political spectrum"
 
fair enough.

like respondents in trailer parks and $2mm homes all saying they're squarely middle class
 
It's a survey result. For the purposes of the research, "centrists" are people who self identify as belonging near the center of a two dimensional scale between liberal and conservative.

"The survey asks respondents to place themselves on a spectrum from far left to center to far right."...
"...Respondents who put themselves at the center of the political spectrum"

What were the questions?
 
fair enough.

like respondents in trailer parks and $2mm homes all saying they're squarely middle class
Well yeah, because "pragmatism" is more an identity than an idealogy. Is it "pragmatic" to roll back Dodd-Frank? Who knows? But they "got it done", and pragmatic centrists work together in bipartisanship to "get things done".
 
RJ: Unions are important
Also RJ: Bezos is an innovator creating decent jobs. Socialists are extremists.
 
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