The naked truth

[Shorty]

Yet you seem to be make posts that support my post.

That' s because you engage in selective reading. You highlighted the portion of my post in which I stated that education is no the SOLE purview of the government. You seem to ignore the part in which I asked why we shouldn't pursue BOTH working to reform public schools AS WELL as giving parents other options.

I do not favor prioritizing tax cuts over funding education.
I do not favor outsourcing education to the private sector.
I do not favor spending on tax cuts (?) over educating the electorate.

 

[84Deac]

84, you do realize you're basically making my point, right?

Not at all. I said that I have no problem with raising teachers' salaries. How is that defunding education? But I want real reform. Strip out a layer or two of fossilized...uhhh... I mean tenured administrators and plow the money back in to the teachers and the classrooms.

Hell, the Atlanta public schools are in danger of losing accreditation, not because of test results but because the elected school board is fighting over how to run things. It doesn't get any more screwed up than that. Oh, and let's not forget the huge cheating scandal here that has implicated more than 100 APS employees. The schoold board fighting has done a good job of deflecting attention, but the spotlight will return to that scandal at some point, too. Yeah, government does a great job with public schools!! Give them more money without any accountability!! :wtf:

 

[PhDeac]

Are you willing to pay for reform at the expense of tax cuts?

 

[Shorty]

Are you willing to pay for reform at the expense of tax cuts?

If it were actual reform that would improve the quality of our kid's education, of course. I have very little confidence in the Department of Education being capable of enacting meaningful change, however.

 

[84Deac]

Are you willing to pay for reform at the expense of tax cuts?

Why does reform necessarily need to cost more? I think it's pretty clear that government schools have wasted the money they are getting. Not going to concede that we need to throw more money at education until you tell me what reforms you agree are necessary. That would sort of be like passing the bill so we can find out what's in it.

 

[PhDeac]

I'm asking a hypothetical. Would you be willing to make the changes necessary if it meant not cutting taxes?

Your question goes against the current Republican philosophy that reform must cost less. It's like passing the bill to find out what's in it. Cut funding then reform instead of figure out the necessary reforms and then pay for it.

 

[84Deac]

I'm asking a hypothetical. Would you be willing to make the changes necessary if it meant not cutting taxes?

Your question goes against the current Republican philosophy that reform must cost less. It's like passing the bill to find out what's in it. Cut funding then reform instead of figure out the necessary reforms and then pay for it.

No. You're creating a straw man that doesn't exist. Find me concrete examples of Republicans saying they want to defund education so they can lower taxes. I haven't once said a thing about cutting funding. What I have said is that I would not increase funding until some major reforms are proposed. I think there is plenty of room to reallocate funds away from administrators and bureaucracy towards paying accomplished teachers more money. All levels of government have shown that they do a poor job of educating our children.

So I am not going to cut funding. What reforms are you willing to admit are needed?

 

[PhDeac]

"Willing to admit?" That's hilarious. You're saying things I've been saying on these forums for years. You still need money to trim bureaucracy and improve the environment for teachers and recruit talented teachers.


As far as Republicans lowering taxes and defunding education, that's what going on here in FL.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/gubernatorial/article1150127.ece

 

[tos]

"Willing to admit?" That's hilarious. You're saying things I've been saying on these forums for years. You still need money to trim bureaucracy and improve the environment for teachers and recruit talented teachers.


As far as Republicans lowering taxes and defunding education, that's what going on here in FL.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/gubernatorial/article1150127.ece

Our fair state has plenty of examples demonstrating you, Shorty and 84 all make good points.

 

[wfumike02]

Why does reform necessarily need to cost more? I think it's pretty clear that government schools have wasted the money they are getting. Not going to concede that we need to throw more money at education until you tell me what reforms you agree are necessary. That would sort of be like passing the bill so we can find out what's in it.

This. If you show the taxpayers where there money is going and why it's a good investment I think you'd be surprised.

 

[PhDeac]

Except politicians on both sides don't do that. With respect to education, Republicans don't consider that we may have to spend more on education. It's hard to take cuts seriously. Spending reflects priorities regardless.

 

[Sgt Hulka]

We have increased funding/spending on education an order of magnitude over the last 25 years and have regressed/stagnated in any measurable metric. I fail to see the "we need to spend more/we don't spend enough on education" crowd's argument here.

 

[Shorty]

We have increased funding/spending on education an order of magnitude over the last 25 years and have regressed/stagnated in any measurable metric. I fail to see the "we need to spend more/we don't spend enough on education" crowd's argument here.

Completely agree. That's why I posted earlier that I have no confidence in Dept of Ed's ability to drive improvement. We already spend more per student than any other country in the world, except Norway.

 

[wfumike02]

Except politicians on both sides don't do that. With respect to education, Republicans don't consider that we may have to spend more on education. It's hard to take cuts seriously. Spending reflects priorities regardless.

It's not like education is the only thing that's being cut. At some point people need to wake up and realize the fountain has dried up and the money just isn't there anymore.

 

[PhDeac]

It's not like education is the only thing that's being cut. At some point people need to wake up and realize the fountain has dried up and the money just isn't there anymore.

I think people understand it. But blaming teachers for the larger financial crisis that dried up their pensions is disingenuous especially since tax increases are off the table to address the issues with education.

 

[wfumike02]

I think people understand it. But blaming teachers for the larger financial crisis that dried up their pensions is disingenuous especially since tax increases are off the table to address the issues with education.

Who are you referring to? Chris Christie?

 

[PhDeac]

Who are you referring to? Chris Christie?

It's a trend among Republican governors across the board.

 

[WPDeac]

It's a trend among Republican governors across the board.

Totally off-topic, but I sometimes scratch my head and go, "Really? When and how did that happen?" whenever the local news talks about Governor Rick Scott - I still don't know how he pulled that off down here.

 

[Deacon923]

I think people understand it. But blaming teachers for the larger financial crisis that dried up their pensions is disingenuous especially since tax increases are off the table to address the issues with education.

I think this post is disingenuous. Nobody is "blaming teachers for the larger financial crisis that dried up their pensions". The fact is that the states are broke. Education (specifically teacher comp and benefits) is one of the largest expense items in every single state, and so many states have found it necessary to take a pound of flesh from the teachers in addition to many, many other programs.

I will grant you that in some states (Wisconsin and NJ most notably) the political rhetoric got way overheated on both sides because the stakes are very high. You might even be able to make the case that the teachers were specifically targeted in Wisconsin (since the police and firefighters cut a political deal and got excluded from that bill). But overall and generally nationwide, education is not taking any more of a hit than other programs. If the cuts to education are bigger dollar figures, its because education is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, budget item in most states.

You can look to what is going on in NC if you want a good example of this. Education is getting slashed but so is the court system, mental health benefits, Golden Leaf grants, etc.

 

[Shorty]

It's a trend among Republican governors across the board.

That is such COLOSSAL bullshit! No one is BLAMING teachers for anything, not republican governors or anyone else. Honest to god, do you post shit like that just to see what kind of a reaction you will get.