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the official new supreme court thread - Very political

Im voting for more guns, a supreme court nominee that will already be confirmed, federal justices that pretend to not legislate from the bench by covering themselves in religion and originalism, the out of date electoral college, systemic racism and bias through unjust policing, using the military and veterans as cover for my vote pretending to know what they want and believe even though i never served, im voting for a flag used to justify nationalism when its just a flag, im voting for the first amendment because I don't really know what that is and just want to be a racist deplorable and say anything with no societal consequences for my actions, im voting for a border wall that was never built and a system that blames immigrants and not the companies that use them, im voting for freedom of religion but only if its white and Christian, im voting against abortion without supporting any alternatives to limit abortions, Im voting for Freedom and AMERICA! Good vs Evil! As an old white man the very future of my country to remain a white male dominate society
 
DeacsPop said:
I didn’t know we were choosing up sides.
My remark was not meant to be condescending at all. I like old fashion.
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We should definitely make America great like it was in those old fashioned days.
 
TheReff said:
Since when did getting elected POTUS become a vote of the popular vote? Never in U.S. history because we have the electoral college luckily and it keeps about 5 states total from controlling the other 45 states. That is also why we have 2 Senators per state, to balance out and give fair representation to each state. Our Founding Fathers thought this out well and it will never be changed!
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If you want to brag about the fact that your party has lost the popular vote - that is, the votes of real, live people instead of 538 electors in a system created in the 18th Century - in 6 out of the last 7 presidential elections then by all means go ahead. And those Framers were smart men in many ways, but that Holy Constitution they created also allowed slavery (and many of them owned slaves themselves), allowed the African slave trade to continue to 1808, kept women and nearly everyone but white men of property from voting or serving in government, and made the Constitution exceptionally difficult to amend or change, especially compared to modern constitutions and charters in most other democracies around the world. If the GOP has such great ideas you'd think they could at least win a plurality of the popular vote, but no, they haven't been able to do even that in six of their last seven tries.

And you didn't even address the fact that the GOP base looks less and less like the American people in the 21st Century, which was my main point. Or maybe you didn't see Ph's post with all of those nice demographic pie charts. We're increasingly a nation being governed by a minority party whose base resembles the America of 60 or 70 years ago. I suspect that such a government won't end well, but congratulations on relying on antiquated 18th-Century rules and procedures to maintain a governing majority instead of actually winning your majority with the votes of real people.
 
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DeacsPop said:
Adhere to the Constitution? Quite old fashion of you.
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Oh, I believe in the Constitution too, I just don't think it's a perfect as-is document that should never be changed. I see it as a good but flawed, living document that should be reformed occasionally to keep up with a rapidly changing nation. Conservatives act is if it's encased in amber and no reforms should ever be accepted or even attempted. Given that it was written to represent a coastal nation of 13 states and about 4 million people, and today we are a continent-sized nation of 50 states and over 325 million people with a vastly more diverse population, maybe some updates are needed. Nah.
 
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While you may or may not be right in conservative reluctance to alter the document, might we also conclude liberals want to change even some of the most basic elements contained in the document?

The electoral college may be the best example of this tug of war. As pointed out by Ref, it was designed to level the playing field in a Country founded on “states rights” to protect the minority who know they were far outnumbered by the more populous states.

The bottom line and best part of the Constitution is it can be changed. Personally I’m tired of the bitchIng and moaning of people lecturing that they won the “popular vote”. The answer is simple.

Change the Constitution.
 
“Won the popular vote” is literally more people voted for one candidate over the other.

Again we have a system in which a few people who are elected not by getting more votes but by where they live trying to reverse the progress of the last 100 years.
 
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DeacsPop said:
While you may or may not be right in conservative reluctance to alter the document, might we also conclude liberals want to change even some of the most basic elements contained in the document?

The electoral college may be the best example of this tug of war. As pointed out by Ref, it was designed to level the playing field in a Country founded on “states rights” to protect the minority who know they were far outnumbered by the more populous states.

The bottom line and best part of the Constitution is it can be changed. Personally I’m tired of the bitchIng and moaning of people lecturing that they won the “popular vote”. The answer is simple.

Change the Constitution.
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Of course conservatives have opposed changing the document - hell, they don't even want to make reforms that are constitutional, like expanding the size of the Supreme Court. And yes, some of the most "basic elements" like the electoral college need to be changed. You can't claim to be the world's greatest democracy when you have a system that deliberately thwarts popular rule. And you can be tired of all the bitching and moaning about the popular vote you want, it's the truth, and one that is very inconvenient for your side to acknowledge. You say we need to change the Constitution, that's exactly what I'm saying - except that as you well know the Constitution is extremely difficult to change or amend, far more so than most other modern constitutions. As for the notion that the EC gives minorities rights, what it basically does is value land over people, so that red states with relatively few people get to tell blue states with far larger populations what to do. Conservatives can argue that 38 million Californians should essentially not have a greater voice than 600,000 people in Wyoming (and in fact should have a lesser voice than Wyoming), I would reply that is a strange concept for a 21st Century society, and a grossly undemocratic one, and one that is doomed to eventually fail.

So I'm all for changing the Constitution, and know full well that your side will fight any attempt at reform every step of the way, and will do whatever it takes to keep those reforms from happening.
 
I understand and appreciate your argument.
However, if your stance is that much in the plurality, you should have no problem gaining consensus and changing the document.
 
DeacsPop said:
I understand and appreciate your argument.
However, if your stance is that much in the plurality, you should have no problem gaining consensus and changing the document.
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I don’t think you understand what it takes to change the Constitution.
 
PhDeac said:
I don’t think you understand what it takes to change the Constitution.
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Please......I may not be a Professor but, though many years ago, I majored in Political Science and taught American History for a number of years.

Is your answer to blow up the “system”. Enlighten us on how that might work.
 
Well, I could write a lit review for you, but you'd need to pay me. You can start with Federalist 85.
 
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I asked for an answer not a lit review.
 
Well don’t worry about it.
 
DeacsPop said:
While you may or may not be right in conservative reluctance to alter the document, might we also conclude liberals want to change even some of the most basic elements contained in the document?

The electoral college may be the best example of this tug of war. As pointed out by Ref, it was designed to level the playing field in a Country founded on “states rights” to protect the minority who know they were far outnumbered by the more populous states.

The bottom line and best part of the Constitution is it can be changed. Personally I’m tired of the bitchIng and moaning of people lecturing that they won the “popular vote”. The answer is simple.

Change the Constitution.
Click to expand...

States rights was a euphemism for maintaining legal slavery in the south.
 
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