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The religious right's hypocrisy now on full display

Y’all talk about Jesus like he’s more than a fictional character in a boring fantasy novel. He isn’t.
 
I understand you believe that. I invite you to consider that some people who are really smart and thoughtful (fellow Wake grads) have explored deeply on this, and we believe that He is God incarnate and taught us to love our fellow man. I am quite confident that Jesus is furious with these modern-day pharisees who believe that enforcing rules are more important than loving our fellow man.
 
DeacDiggler said:
This all makes me sick, even if I should have known to expect it. I'm not giving up on Jesus but every church in America needs to put a plan in place immediately to make sure their leadership is held accountable and is subject to the law.
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You can stand by Jesus and abandon these churches and/or organized religion as a whole. In fact that is probably, as it stands, the only way to actually stand by Jesus. Time and time again we see that churches consolidate control over people's spirits and then abuse their power.
 
Jesus definitely didn't have any megachurches in mind when he started this thing. Acts tells us a lot about organic churches where no one is elevated above others.

My church booted an egomaniac pastor a few years ago and didn't replace him. Instead, we have a committee of three pastors that share decision making responsibilities. It seems like a good model even though I'm sure it's a pain to operate the "business" side of things, like hiring and firing staff, making budgets, etc.
 
DeacDiggler said:
I understand you believe that. I invite you to consider that some people who are really smart and thoughtful (fellow Wake grads) have explored deeply on this, and we believe that He is God incarnate and taught us to love our fellow man. I am quite confident that Jesus is furious with these modern-day pharisees who believe that enforcing rules are more important than loving our fellow man.
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Any evidence you got to support that first part?
 
mikedrum4prez said:
Any evidence you got to support that first part?
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He said in the post that I quoted that he doesn't believe in Jesus.

If you mean the second part, where I said that plenty of us believe in Jesus, I think the testimony of billions of Christians would seem to support that.

If you're asking for proof that Jesus is who He said He is, then no, obviously I don't have any hard proof, and neither does anyone else. My faith journey was a lot of personal reflection, reading, praying, and experiences. If you're genuinely interested in discussing it I'm happy to do so. I do have some points that I fall back on regularly that help me in my faith:

1. The disciples were morons who couldn't do anything on their own, and their own testimonies support that. They were all the equivalent of today's high school dropout, they all ran like frightened children when the law showed up, and none of them were there when Jesus really needed them. They fought about dumb things and totally missed the point of what Jesus was telling him during His life. Their own accounts support all of this. Peter, who became of the key leaders of the church, denied knowing Jesus repeatedly, a fact that the Gospels make very clear. Hardly the story you'd write about yourself, and I find it compelling that they did so anyway.
2. After Jesus' death, they suddenly were first class orators and preached a message of love and salvation and converted thousands of people. They claimed that they had seen Jesus' resurrected body despite being imprisoned and ultimately martyred for refusing to recant. They preached an unpopular message of love in the face of huge odds, and somehow they stayed alive long enough for this message to spread around the world. How did this former group of morons suddenly grow balls and do all of this if it wasn't that they truly believed they had seen Jesus?
3. Paul was on top of the world as a Pharisee. He was at the peak of his career, chasing down Christians to persecute. But suddenly out of the blue, he did a 180 and began to preach the Gospel. Why would he do that? He gave up a life of luxury and prestige for a life of hardship and persecution. That doesn't make any sense to me without him having seen Jesus.

anyway - not the whole story, but that's part of why I believe.
 
DeacDiggler said:
He said in the post that I quoted that he doesn't believe in Jesus.

If you mean the second part, where I said that plenty of us believe in Jesus, I think the testimony of billions of Christians would seem to support that.

If you're asking for proof that Jesus is who He said He is, then no, obviously I don't have any hard proof, and neither does anyone else. My faith journey was a lot of personal reflection, reading, praying, and experiences. If you're genuinely interested in discussing it I'm happy to do so. I do have some points that I fall back on regularly that help me in my faith:

1. The disciples were morons who couldn't do anything on their own, and their own testimonies support that. They were all the equivalent of today's high school dropout, they all ran like frightened children when the law showed up, and none of them were there when Jesus really needed them. They fought about dumb things and totally missed the point of what Jesus was telling him during His life. Their own accounts support all of this. Peter, who became of the key leaders of the church, denied knowing Jesus repeatedly, a fact that the Gospels make very clear. Hardly the story you'd write about yourself, and I find it compelling that they did so anyway.
2. After Jesus' death, they suddenly were first class orators and preached a message of love and salvation and converted thousands of people. They claimed that they had seen Jesus' resurrected body despite being imprisoned and ultimately martyred for refusing to recant. They preached an unpopular message of love in the face of huge odds, and somehow they stayed alive long enough for this message to spread around the world. How did this former group of morons suddenly grow balls and do all of this if it wasn't that they truly believed they had seen Jesus?
3. Paul was on top of the world as a Pharisee. He was at the peak of his career, chasing down Christians to persecute. But suddenly out of the blue, he did a 180 and began to preach the Gospel. Why would he do that? He gave up a life of luxury and prestige for a life of hardship and persecution. That doesn't make any sense to me without him having seen Jesus.

anyway - not the whole story, but that's part of why I believe.
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On the flip side you’ve got 50 million republicans who suddenly changed their character after watching Donald trump on TV
 
The marketing campaign can be about how the Antonelli’s are groomers.
 
dartsndeacs said:
On the flip side you’ve got 50 million republicans who suddenly changed their character after watching Donald trump on TV
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Because they’re white. Most Christians of every other race vote for Democrats.
 
DeacDiggler said:
He said in the post that I quoted that he doesn't believe in Jesus.

If you mean the second part, where I said that plenty of us believe in Jesus, I think the testimony of billions of Christians would seem to support that.

If you're asking for proof that Jesus is who He said He is, then no, obviously I don't have any hard proof, and neither does anyone else. My faith journey was a lot of personal reflection, reading, praying, and experiences. If you're genuinely interested in discussing it I'm happy to do so. I do have some points that I fall back on regularly that help me in my faith:

1. The disciples were morons who couldn't do anything on their own, and their own testimonies support that. They were all the equivalent of today's high school dropout, they all ran like frightened children when the law showed up, and none of them were there when Jesus really needed them. They fought about dumb things and totally missed the point of what Jesus was telling him during His life. Their own accounts support all of this. Peter, who became of the key leaders of the church, denied knowing Jesus repeatedly, a fact that the Gospels make very clear. Hardly the story you'd write about yourself, and I find it compelling that they did so anyway.
2. After Jesus' death, they suddenly were first class orators and preached a message of love and salvation and converted thousands of people. They claimed that they had seen Jesus' resurrected body despite being imprisoned and ultimately martyred for refusing to recant. They preached an unpopular message of love in the face of huge odds, and somehow they stayed alive long enough for this message to spread around the world. How did this former group of morons suddenly grow balls and do all of this if it wasn't that they truly believed they had seen Jesus?
3. Paul was on top of the world as a Pharisee. He was at the peak of his career, chasing down Christians to persecute. But suddenly out of the blue, he did a 180 and began to preach the Gospel. Why would he do that? He gave up a life of luxury and prestige for a life of hardship and persecution. That doesn't make any sense to me without him having seen Jesus.

anyway - not the whole story, but that's part of why I believe.
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Thanks for the response
 
[h=1]A pastor confessed to ‘adultery.’ The woman cried out: ‘I was just 16.’[/h]
[h=2]John Lowe II had ‘improper sexual conduct’ with a 16-year-old girl, his church said[/h]
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/24/pastor-confesses-adultery-teenager/

The Rev. John Lowe II ended Sunday’s church service with a confession to his congregation.

“I committed adultery,” he told churchgoers at New Life Christian Church & World Outreach in Warsaw, Ind.


Lowe, who has been with his wife for more than 45 years, said his infidelity happened 20 years ago with one person, continued for “far too long” and was kept secret from his family and his flock.


“I sinned. I need to say that, and you deserve to hear it.”

Lowe, 65, got a standing ovation for coming clean. But moments later, a woman came to the lectern, took the microphone and told her side of the story, starting with a correction: It happened 27 years ago, not 20, she said.


The woman, now in her 40s, also added an important detail.

“I was just 16 when you took my virginity on your office floor. Do you remember that? I know you do,” she told her longtime pastor, describing herself as “a victim.”
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When the woman took the microphone Sunday, she started by saying she had been living in “a prison of lies and shame” for nearly three decades. For years, she said, she blamed herself for the sexual relationship her pastor had initiated. She thought she was a horrible person and considered suicide. She lied to protect Lowe and his family, she said, and so did others: “People knew but were too afraid to come forward.”


“No one ever came to me. No one ever helped me. No one ever got me counseling,” she added.

New Life church said in its statement that it has been preaching a “Cross-driven message of repentance, forgiveness and restoration” for 42 years. The woman told congregants “this church has been built on lies, but no more.”

“The lies and manipulation have to stop,” she said.


That process started several weeks ago when she said her brother came to her to say that, even decades later, he was still bothered by what he had seen as a teenager: his pastor in bed with his younger sister. His concern led the woman to tell New Life’s church leaders about what Lowe had done.
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“It was wrong,” he said, adding, “I can’t do anything about that except to tell you that if I could go back and redo it all, I would. I can’t, and all I can do is ask you to forgive me.”

Then, Lowe gave the microphone to a man who led the church in prayer as Lowe walked down to the space between the stage and the church pews. As he stood at the front, one congregant approached and hugged him. Several more came up to form a prayer circle with Lowe, putting their hands on each others’ shoulders. One by one, more flocked to the front, and soon dozens surrounded the disgraced pastor.

“God, I pray for this body that has been wounded, that you begin to heal us, Lord,” the man at the lectern said, later adding, “All sin has consequences.”
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I doubt he regrets anything. He had sex with her for 7 years starting when she was 16 and he called it "adultery." That's not regret. I also doubt she's the only victim.
 
Nothing to see here. This is just god's will. He wouldn't give her any challenge she can't face ! Even 16 yo's deserve god's special brand of teaching and transforming us in his image !!
 
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