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The UAW is at is again

DirkTheDeac said:
Robots and Mexicans bolt on the doors. Where have you guys been...
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It's sadly predictable that the snobs on this board only want their kind to share in the profits of a company. They don't people they see on less of a caste than they occupy to succeed.

It's OK for Mike to negotiate with his employer for a better deal but it's not OK for people who get dirty at work to do the same.

Ford is making record profit it would anti-capitalistic for those who helped them reach these profits not to reap some of the beneifts.
 
"their kind" lol. those hourly workers make more than I do, joker and I have a ton of (different industry) union workers in my family.

I don't have a problem with the unions doing their thing but it's hard to argue that they're getting some kind of awful deal from the big bad car company management.
 
If the UAW actually feared the demise of the American Auto-industry they wouldn't keep pulling this shit.
 
WFU71 said:
Give them a nice bonus for the success...that way the increased cost isn't built into the system. Another good year-another nice bonus.
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Theoretically that's not a bad idea, but that can be played with to avoid paying. A good example is the company took a big chargeoff for closing Mercury last quarter.

Why should the bonus for Ford workers be impacted by this?

Also will the company give retroavtive bonuses for all the profitable quarters during the past contract?
 
Records profits are a great accomplishment for the people who make decisions for the company. As it was said earlier, the guy who bolts on doors doesn't have shit to do with that. The gas station I worked at in high school might have made record profits too, but I didn't get a raise for cleaning the toilets or stocking the shelves.
 
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I fail to see the issue. The union is pushing for more, as is its function. Management can decide whether to accede to request. What's the problem?

I agree with the bonus compromise. I think a few more fat years are required before you start bucking the labor deals that fattened you in the first place.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Records profits are a great accomplishment for the people who make decisions for the company. As it was said earlier, the guy who bolts on doors doesn't have shit to do with that. The gas station I worked at in high school might have made record profits too, but I didn't get a raise for cleaning the toilets or stocking the shelves. These aren't school teachers or cops, they volunteered to work for a private organization.
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Yeah, but the issue is whether the guy putting bolts on the vehicle would be willing to accept lower wages and a restructured pension plan for more equity-based compensation tied to results of the company. If you believe they are currently over-paid, the answer is "no way" - why would they? It is my belief (but I don't know for fact) that the UAW has resisted moving towards this type of benefit system (e.g., ESOPs) b/c the risk is not worth the reward... despite record profits this year (nevermind the $12.6 bn operating profit loss in 2006 and $4.4 billion operating loss in 2008)
 
ArlingtonDeac said:
I fail to see the issue. The union is pushing for more, as is its function. Management can decide whether to accede to request. What's the problem?

I agree with the bonus compromise. I think a few more fat years are required before you start bucking the labor deals that fattened you in the first place.
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I think the three of us agree on the bonus provided the markers cannot be played with vis a vis accounting machinations.
 
I get that the Union workers gave up concessions they had been promised before the turnaround, but those lost concessions were won originally under threat of picketing and work stoppage, and under terrible, former corporate management direction. It says in the article that much of the CEO's pay is in the form of stock, if the hourly Union workers are so upset about the CEO's pay, they should be willing to take much of their pay in the form of stock as well.
 
RJKarl said:
It's sadly predictable that the snobs on this board only want their kind to share in the profits of a company. They don't people they see on less of a caste than they occupy to succeed.

It's OK for Mike to negotiate with his employer for a better deal but it's not OK for people who get dirty at work to do the same.

Ford is making record profit it would anti-capitalistic for those who helped them reach these profits not to reap some of the beneifts.
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Actually, no it's not OK for me to negotiate with my employer for a better deal. I'm a non-union, public sector worker.

And there's a huge difference between one worker negotiating his/her salary with an employer and a union saying, "give us what we want or we will shut your company down."

Finally, by any realistic analysis these workers are doing incredibly well for what they do, yet they choose to paint themselves as having been victimized. It's disingenuous and it simply doesn't resonate well when most of the middle class really is having a tough time of it.
 
the labor deals were bad deals, everyone knew it but management was in a bad situation because they couldn't afford a strike in the late 90s and early 00s when business was booming.
The reason the Big 3 struggled is because they had poor manufacturing and assembly processes. (bad labor deals were just the nail in the coffin) They had no flexibility in their processes and ran huge inventories in the name of "efficiency" (changing metal stamping dyes and things like that are expensive and time consuming, so the Big 3 thought that if they planned well then they could run everything they need for the year/6months at once and avoid having to do such things...the problem is they were wrong and when shit hit the fan they couldn't adjust and were sitting on shit piles of unfinished goods and even finished inventory at dealers, all that shit was very cash intensive and so they had to whore the price to get cash back out but because of the recession they couldn't whore the price enough, i.e bankruptcy)
Ford staved off bankruptcy because they effectively mortgaged all the assets of the company in 05 or 06 because they saw this coming and new they'd need a huge cash stockpile....GM and Chrystler didn't. Now, one of the reasons they were so inflexible and choose to operate this way is because of the labor unions....blame management for being short sighted and greedy during good years (not risking strike in order to chase easy profits) or blame the union for putting management in a situation where it was "forced" (by shareholders) to choose their operating strategies, but at least be aware of what the issues were
 
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wfumike02 said:
Actually, no it's not OK for me to negotiate with my employer for a better deal. I'm a non-union, public sector worker.

And there's a huge difference between one worker negotiating his/her salary with an employer and a union saying, "give us what we want or we will shut your company down."

Finally, by any realistic analysis these workers are doing incredibly well for what they do, yet they choose to paint themselves as having been victimized. It's disingenuous and it simply doesn't resonate well when most of the middle class really is having a tough time of it.
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They negotiated pay and benfits cuts when Ford was in dep trouble. but you don't don't wnat them to get some of this back when the company is profitable.

You simkply think because you went to college and law school that you are better than they are and they shouldn't be allowed to get back some of what they gave back.
 
ArlingtonDeac said:
I fail to see the issue. The union is pushing for more, as is its function. Management can decide whether to accede to request. What's the problem?
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When the union shuts the place down because management decides not to accede, then gets indignant/violent if management hires replacements for the people that refuse to work.
 
If they want more than their worth, fire them and hire someone else. Have you looked at the recent unemployment rates? They could be replaced in a week.

That being said its a private company, they can handle their own issues. However if those ass clowns ask for another bailout I'll personally never purchase an item from them again. Something tells me I'll probably get a chance to make that decision.
 
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bobknightfan said:
Alan Mulally
President and Chief Executive Officer
FORD MOTOR CO (F)
Headquarters: DEARBORN, MI
Transportation Equipment
In 2010, Alan Mulally received $26,520,515 in total compensation. By comparison, the median worker made $33,840 in 2010. Alan Mulally made 783 times the median worker's pay.
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And how much of that was salary versus stock options?

BTW, Mulally had a lot more to do with turning the company around than the guy who bolts the doors on.
 
RJKarl said:
The American auto industtry is making record profits.
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Weren't these the same companies we had to bail out. Oh, sure, record profits today. They were probably making record profits in the 60s too.

We'll see how this works out for the UAW. Frankly, I think the union bosses want more union dues. That's about it.
 
BillBrasky said:
Of they want more than their worth. fire the, and hire someone else. Have you looked at the recent unemployment rates? They could be replaced in a week.
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That's where the violence and intimidation of 'scabs' comes in.
 
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