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Top 3 Choices

FckVwls said:
They weren't flukey at all. All 3 UCLA teams that made the final four were awesome teams. That's not my point.

The point is that the tournament is random so I would suggest evaluating candidates based on how many awesome teams they had not how many sweet 16s or final fours they made.
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I would be interested to hear if coaches feel there is really a different skill set for coaching tournament basketball. It makes sense there would be to a certain extent. It also makes sense that some of the difference is just related to how much chance plays into a single-elimination format.
Are there otherwise really good coaches that just don't have the "it" factor for tournament games? Are their guys that have a way of just taking their teams to another level for a tournament, that they couldn't sustain for a whole season? Kinda like the players that can light it up in practice vs the guys that don't seem to be special in practice but once the lights come on they are superstars.
Wrangor?
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Vandy, Florida, Alabama, Arkansas, Tennessee are all top 36 nationally in college basketball attendance, Arkansas, Ten, and UK being top 20.
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Is that by total attendance or percentage? If the former, would you consider Duke to be a worse job than those?
 
IAppreciateIt said:
Uh, I don't know. You are the one who randomly brought Howland into a conversation about the merits of Archie Miller and Tommy Amaker.
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My point is that on-court accomplishments matter. They're not the whole story, but you can't dismiss them because "HE ALMOST LOST!" In his third year, Miller beat Thad Matta and Jim Boeheim to get to the Sweet 16. That's a big deal. And it gives me more hope than Amaker, who was the definition of "mediocre" in his major program stops.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Vandy, Florida, Alabama, Arkansas, Tennessee are all top 36 nationally in college basketball attendance, Arkansas, Ten, and UK being top 20.
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Yes, and Arkansas was able to nab Mike Anderson from Missouri for all of $2.2 million. I have a hard time believing all the peeps on this board who say increased ticket sales alone will pay $3+ plus for a Shaka or whoever else. Bud Walton Arena in Fayetteville seats over 19,000. LJC seats under 15,000.

Don't get me wrong -- I want Wake to land Shaka. I don't think it'd take $3 million to do it, either. But I question the posters on this board who have said that the math has been done, and that it's been "proven" that a big-name coach can pay for himself through increased ticket sales. No way.
 
RollWave35 said:
My point is that on-court accomplishments matter. They're not the whole story, but you can't dismiss them because "HE ALMOST LOST!" In his third year, Miller beat Thad Matta and Jim Boeheim to get to the Sweet 16. That's a big deal. And it gives me more hope than Amaker, who was the definition of "mediocre" in his major program stops.
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We do not need to hire a guy who has been mediocre at the top level jobs. Can you say retread. Aim for fences and then take a chance.
 
FckVwls said:
They weren't flukey at all. All 3 UCLA teams that made the final four were awesome teams. That's not my point.

The point is that the tournament is random so I would suggest evaluating candidates based on how many awesome teams they had not how many sweet 16s or final fours they made.
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To a point. Obviously, people are going to get less excited about a team that is perpetually on the bubble and then outperforms their seed. But, eventually there is enough proof that a coach either knows what they're doing by winning in the NCAAT or not. I think you are correct about people like Amaker and Miller - there isn't enough information to know if it's a fluke or not. With Howland, I think the results are compelling, so there's little use in bringing up what-if scenarios.
 
IAppreciateIt said:
He was just trying to illustrate a point, not trying to make a value judgment on Howland.
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Yes, and I think he used a poor example by bringing up an instance with compelling and sustained tournament success.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Is that by total attendance or percentage? If the former, would you consider Duke to be a worse job than those?
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Duke is obviously the elite of the elite in college basketball, but their attendance is the exception to the rule. For instance, Florida is an elite basketball school with Billy Donovan, but they sucked shit before him, have terrible attendance considering their success, and will most likely return to the mean if/when Donovan leaves. Schools like Arkansas and Tennessee have programs ready-made to join the elite, they've had success in the past, and their fan bases have remained passionate in the down year. Those schools are simply a great coach away. Had Bruce Pearl not lied about a barbecue, Tennessee would most likely be considered semi-elite right now.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Duke is obviously the elite of the elite in college basketball, but their attendance is the exception to the rule. For instance, Florida is an elite basketball school with Billy Donovan, but they sucked shit before him, have terrible attendance considering their success, and will most likely return to the mean if/when Donovan leaves. Schools like Arkansas and Tennessee have programs ready-made to join the elite, they've had success in the past, and their fan bases have remained passionate in the down year. Those schools are simply a great coach away. Had Bruce Pearl not lied about a barbecue, Tennessee would most likely be considered semi-elite right now.
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Agree to disagree then. NCSU and Clemson have rabid fanbases, but I wouldn't necessarily see them knocking on the door. Not sure what the discussion is anymore. I think it's ACC vs. SEC and/or Wake vs. Vandy. Give me Wake and the ACC.
 
DemonDeacon501 said:
Yes, and Arkansas was able to nab Mike Anderson from Missouri for all of $2.2 million. I have a hard time believing all the peeps on this board who say increased ticket sales alone will pay $3+ plus for a Shaka or whoever else. Bud Walton Arena in Fayetteville seats over 19,000. LJC seats under 15,000.

Don't get me wrong -- I want Wake to land Shaka. I don't think it'd take $3 million to do it, either. But I question the posters on this board who have said that the math has been done, and that it's been "proven" that a big-name coach can pay for himself through increased ticket sales. No way.
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Only 1 poster on this board thinks it will take 3M plus to land Smart, and that poster is setting the money figure so outrageously high just so he can claim he was right when we don't land him. I can already see the "we would have had him if we offered 3M instead of 2.2M" posts, which will be an unprovable claim.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Duke is obviously the elite of the elite in college basketball, but their attendance is the exception to the rule. For instance, Florida is an elite basketball school with Billy Donovan, but they sucked shit before him, have terrible attendance considering their success, and will most likely return to the mean if/when Donovan leaves. Schools like Arkansas and Tennessee have programs ready-made to join the elite, they've had success in the past, and their fan bases have remained passionate in the down year. Those schools are simply a great coach away. Had Bruce Pearl not lied about a barbecue, Tennessee would most likely be considered semi-elite right now.
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WTF? Florida went to the Final Four three years before Donovan got there.
 
TexasDeac71 said:
Plus, isn't the Joel gonna be downsized?
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Nothing has been decided/announced about the renovations to the arena area. They're planning something, but I think they've been busy fixing a lot of deferred maintenance items (roof, etc.) and putting lipstick on the concession areas (probably to please the idiots at Ovations Food Service). I think there was a fan survey about what people want, wasn't there?
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Agree to disagree then. NCSU and Clemson have rabid fanbases, but I wouldn't necessarily see them knocking on the door. Not sure what the discussion is anymore. I think it's ACC vs. SEC and/or Wake vs. Vandy. Give me Wake and the ACC.
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Clemson's not so rabid about basketball. They usually don't sell out Littlejohn (10,000 seats).
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Agree to disagree then. NCSU and Clemson have rabid fanbases, but I wouldn't necessarily see them knocking on the door. Not sure what the discussion is anymore. I think it's ACC vs. SEC and/or Wake vs. Vandy. Give me Wake and the ACC.
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Wake vs. Vandy isn't even a discussion. Wake >>> Vandy. And I'm in SEC country.
 
Liquid Karma said:
Only 1 poster on this board thinks it will take 3M plus to land Smart, and that poster is setting the money figure so outrageously high just so he can claim he was right when we don't land him. I can already see the "we would have had him if we offered 3M instead of 2.2M" posts, which will be an unprovable claim.
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I believe the latest is 3.5M for 10 years or 35M total
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Plus a tenured job for his wife, and possibly a Golden Retriever.
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Man when I read "Golden" I thought it was going to be corral not retriever. I think a Golden Corral membership would get it done though.
 
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