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Truck plows into crowd at Christmas street market in Berlin

RJKarl said:
There are several million Muslims in the US. even 1% of 3M is 30,000. If there were 30,000 people who have become radicalized, it's unlikely we'd have as few incidents as we have had.

You won't address the fact that many Muslims have been elected to public office and haven't tried to pass any religious based laws. Now compare that to Christians in America. In 29 states have used their Bible to justify making it legal to fire people just because they are gay. You talk about what you think Muslims would do while ignoring what Christians are currently doing,

It's likely that Christians in the House and Senate will pass a law to defund Planned Parenthood based on lies and their faith. For forty years, it has been illegal to use a single cent of federal money for abortion services, yet Christian Republicans say it is happening. Because of Christians exercising what they think is their faith the health of millions of American women could be negatively impacted due to Christians theoretically, and erroneously, exercising their faith.

You worry about things that haven't happened, but excuse and ignore things that are happening.
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You need not be radicalized to not be integrated. The point does not stop at radicalization. We have covered this ad nauseum - the prevalence of views in Muslim societies around the world relative to women, gays, non-believers, sharia etc. relative to Western societies (hint: the Muslim societies are not remotely as progressive).

You keep trying to equivocate. As has been noted over and over and over, these things are not mutually exclusive.
 
What happens around the world is not relevant to here. There isn't an industrialized nation, with a reasonably sized Muslim population where the Muslims are more assimilated than in the US. There are a lot of reasons for this. One is due to geography, it's harder and more expensive to get to the US. Thus, it's more affluent and more educated Muslims that come here. Even middle class and lower-middle class Muslims aren't as radical as in other places.

With the exception of MN, we don't have Muslim ghettos like Europe does. You always try to get around this fact. People who are poor, have few opportunities and little hope are more likely to become radicalized. That's not the case here.

To enter and stay in Europe is also much easier than in the US. This is also a factor.

I've never said anything like " the Muslim societies are not remotely as progressive". I've not said such things, inferred or implied that was remotely true. Once again you invent a position I don't have.

You desperately need the extrapolations to make your desire to show Muslims to be dangerous, evil people plausible.
 
RJKarl said:
What happens around the world is not relevant to here. There isn't an industrialized nation, with a reasonably sized Muslim population where the Muslims are more assimilated than in the US. There are a lot of reasons for this. One is due to geography, it's harder and more expensive to get to the US. Thus, it's more affluent and more educated Muslims that come here. Even middle class and lower-middle class Muslims aren't as radical as in other places.

With the exception of MN, we don't have Muslim ghettos like Europe does. You always try to get around this fact. People who are poor, have few opportunities and little hope are more likely to become radicalized. That's not the case here.

To enter and stay in Europe is also much easier than in the US. This is also a factor.

I've never said anything like " the Muslim societies are not remotely as progressive". I've not said such things, inferred or implied that was remotely true. Once again you invent a position I don't have.

You desperately need the extrapolations to make your desire to show Muslims to be dangerous, evil people plausible.
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I've got way better things to do than continue down this path with you. Your last sentence is demonstrable again of an "on-off" view of the world. Repeatedly I have noted this is a complicated issue in the pages I have attempted to engage you. Nope. My view is obviously black and white. I'm completely incapable of seeing nuance.

It is yet the latest piece of evidence that there's no point trying to engage with you in any sort of meaningful discussion. You toss out statements that are not grounded in data - pure conjecture and opinion on your part. When you are handed examples you push them aside. When you are handed data you ignore it or claim it is flawed. When you are offered simple extrapolations of data you proclaim they can't possibly be true. When someone recognizes statements you have made as having some validity, you still ignore what has been said.

You're right, RJ. We have absolutely no reason to be concerned about the viewpoints and behaviors of any immigrants from Muslim countries. 63% of Muslims in the United States are first generation immigrants from countries with Muslim populations that have self reported significant portions of people who hold worldviews on all sundry of issues that stand in contrast to commonly held values and beliefs in Western societies. But per you 98-99+% of these individuals are integrated into our society. That makes perfect sense. That some tiny proportion of these people go fully off the deep end and murder innocent civilians in the name of their religion of course has nothing to do with their background. See, you won.
 
" Repeatedly I have noted this is a complicated issue in the pages I have attempted to engage you. Nope. My view is obviously black and white. I'm completely incapable of seeing nuance."

What you have "repeatedly" done is try to put words in my mouth and dismiss anything I say that doesn't agree with you. A perfect example of this is how dramatically different it is for Muslims to reach and remain in the US versus Europe and other places. You refuse to admit that Muslims that arrive in America are typically more accomplished and more affluent.

You also refuse to address the fact that thinking about something and enacting it is different. You also don't acknowledge that there are US Muslims in elected office and other positions of prominence and there haven't been any attempts to bring Muslim laws into our nation.

I have NEVER said this, "You're right, RJ. We have absolutely no reason to be concerned about the viewpoints and behaviors of any immigrants from Muslim countries." Once again you are lying my position. Your next move is to blame me for your lies. You've been doing this for about two decades. Why stop now?

I'd like to have a civil discussion, but you have no interest in doing so. If I don't kiss your ring, you simply make up statements I haven't said.
 
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failure to consult with fellow Europeans before making important decisions, promotion of smuggling people, and facilitating terrorism should not be European values
 
pinochadeac said:
Why does rj keep mentioning elected Muslim officials?
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Because he thinks the fact that Muslim officials haven't immediately pushed for Sharia law is probative of their moderation. That Islam is antithetical to our founding and enduring principles is absolutely no reason to think its adherents pose a threat when holding public office here. Completely logical. Nothing to see here.
 
RJKarl said:
" Repeatedly I have noted this is a complicated issue in the pages I have attempted to engage you. Nope. My view is obviously black and white. I'm completely incapable of seeing nuance."

What you have "repeatedly" done is try to put words in my mouth and dismiss anything I say that doesn't agree with you. A perfect example of this is how dramatically different it is for Muslims to reach and remain in the US versus Europe and other places. You refuse to admit that Muslims that arrive in America are typically more accomplished and more affluent.

You also refuse to address the fact that thinking about something and enacting it is different. You also don't acknowledge that there are US Muslims in elected office and other positions of prominence and there haven't been any attempts to bring Muslim laws into our nation.

I have NEVER said this, "You're right, RJ. We have absolutely no reason to be concerned about the viewpoints and behaviors of any immigrants from Muslim countries." Once again you are lying my position. Your next move is to blame me for your lies. You've been doing this for about two decades. Why stop now?

I'd like to have a civil discussion, but you have no interest in doing so. If I don't kiss your ring, you simply make up statements I haven't said.
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Yes, the "why do you lie" tact. Awesome!
 
The reality is you have lied in your childish attempts at sarcasm in putting words into my mouth that I'v e said. Your hatred of everything Muslim is quite clear. You talk about polling information of what might happen but has never happened in the US. You neglect the major differences in getting in and remaining in the US versus the same actions in Europe. You neglect the fact that all over Europe Muslims live in ghettos versus only one such place in the US.

You don't care about the history of Muslims in the US. Nor do care about the fact that American Christians are enacting laws to harm gays and women right now versus no such action by American Muslims who have been elected.

You are consistent. For the past twenty years or so, it's your way or the highway. You are never wrong and anyone who disagrees with you gets insulted.
 
RJKarl said:
The reality is you have lied in your childish attempts at sarcasm in putting words into my mouth that I'v e said. Your hatred of everything Muslim is quite clear. You talk about polling information of what might happen but has never happened in the US. You neglect the major differences in getting in and remaining in the US versus the same actions in Europe. You neglect the fact that all over Europe Muslims live in ghettos versus only one such place in the US.
You don't care about the history of Muslims in the US. Nor do care about the fact that American Christians are enacting laws to harm gays and women right now versus no such action by American Muslims who have been elected.

You are consistent. For the past twenty years or so, it's your way or the highway. You are never wrong and anyone who disagrees with you gets insulted.
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No need to put words in your mouth to refute your arguments; res ipsa loquitor.
 
RJKarl said:
The reality is you have lied in your childish attempts at sarcasm in putting words into my mouth that I'v e said. Your hatred of everything Muslim is quite clear. You talk about polling information of what might happen but has never happened in the US. You neglect the major differences in getting in and remaining in the US versus the same actions in Europe. You neglect the fact that all over Europe Muslims live in ghettos versus only one such place in the US.

You don't care about the history of Muslims in the US. Nor do care about the fact that American Christians are enacting laws to harm gays and women right now versus no such action by American Muslims who have been elected.

You are consistent. For the past twenty years or so, it's your way or the highway. You are never wrong and anyone who disagrees with you gets insulted.
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I just love reading this type of stuff. So fucking over the top. So vitriolic and full of utter garbage.

But you're always the victim, RJ. Always. You're so misunderstood.

"Why do you lie????!!!!!????"

So LOL.
 
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What a weird definition of victim. I show that you are FOS and don't respond to anything that shows this is so.

I showed that Muslims who come to America are of a different class. He is silent.

I show how it's much difficult to enter and remain in America than it is in Europe. Again, this challenges his ideas. So. he ignores the truth.

I show that unlike Europe Muslims in the US didn't live in ghettos. Once again, he ignores facts that are in opposition to his hate-filled and erroneous rants.

I show that Muslims have been elected to various levels of political office in the US but hadn't tried to impose any part of Sharia Law as DeacMan alludes to over and over.

Like he always done, when shown that he is wrong he acts like he is superior and right. He can't dispute any of the above. Nor can he dispute that American Christian politicians have enacted laws against gays and continue to so to gays and women.

There's no way around all the above being true and showing his positions are false other than to attack. His response is the truth is call my calm, reasoned facts "vitriol" and "garbage".

It's sad, but we have seen his act for decades.
 
DeacMan said:
If someone cannot even acknowledge there are radical Islamists in our country, there's no point in continuing.

His positions are just so "on-off" and yet he complains about his words being parsed. He's not capable of engaging in any sort of critical (much less nuanced) thought, which is really quite sad. Just remember, there are no Muslim immigrants in our country who are adverse to living in a Western, secular society. It simply is not an issue because all have assimilated. And to the extent we see problems in any group of immigrants, it is our fault any problems arise and any radicalization that occurs or is acted upon has nothing to do with religion. Hell, he's even tacitly suggested that we dictate where people live and implied Somalis somehow have been forced to live in a large impoverished community devoid of any personal services in Minnesota. It apparently has never occurred to him that any group of immigrants will seek to find and live among people they find familiar (i.e. people of a similar background) and that their background is not just economic and social but also religious. Really, we're going to dictate where people live? Why would we ever do this?
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Without context, this could have been a post about BKF and nobody would have batted an eye.
 
Shhhhhh...DeacMan thniks more of himself than whom he is becoming or may already be.
 
RJKarl said:
What a weird definition of victim. I show that you are FOS and don't respond to anything that shows this is so.

I showed that Muslims who come to America are of a different class. He is silent.

I show how it's much difficult to enter and remain in America than it is in Europe. Again, this challenges his ideas. So. he ignores the truth.

I show that unlike Europe Muslims in the US didn't live in ghettos. Once again, he ignores facts that are in opposition to his hate-filled and erroneous rants.

I show that Muslims have been elected to various levels of political office in the US but hadn't tried to impose any part of Sharia Law as DeacMan alludes to over and over.

Like he always done, when shown that he is wrong he acts like he is superior and right. He can't dispute any of the above. Nor can he dispute that American Christian politicians have enacted laws against gays and continue to so to gays and women.

There's no way around all the above being true and showing his positions are false other than to attack. His response is the truth is call my calm, reasoned facts "vitriol" and "garbage".

It's sad, but we have seen his act for decades.
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Yes!! This!!! Your "calm, reasoned facts" are demonstrable of your greatness at finding all that is "true". And my "hatred" of "all things Muslim" and my willingness to simply "ignore the truth". Clearly, victory is yours. You are greatness personified. Carry on.
 
Even Sig is comparing you to BKF. That's about all we need to know about you here.
 
RJKarl said:
Even Sig is comparing you to BKF. That's about all we need to know about you here.
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RJ,

You should be ashamed of yourself. This man foolishly tried to engage in reasoned debate for days on end. This was most likely this last time someone will try and seriously engage you.

You should apologize profusely as it seems that Deacman has endless patience and even now he might would try and re-engage.

I don't know where he gets that kind of patience and I am sure there will be a special place in heaven for him.

Get on your knees and apologize.

Just trying to help, RJ.
 
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