True option flex bone offense?

[liveanddiedeac]

Ga. Southern of course upset Florida Saturday by completing no passes and rushing for 427 yards against an SEC defense (although beat up). Today on ESPN they were talking about how respected Ga. Southern is and how long they've been running this offense. There is a story of Saban a few years back being told that the AD was thinking about scheduling Ga. Southern as a future FCS game and Saban saying there is no way they are playing Ga. Southern. How would we feel if we hired for instance the Ga. Southern coach or the Navy coach, etc. and they brought this system to Wake?

To me here are the key questions:

Would we like watching that offense week after week? My opinion, if it makes us more successful yes.
Would we be patient enough to give the new coach time to recruit to that system? Hard to answer without knowing if it would be successful.
Would we be okay with the limitations of that offense, when it comes to possibly winning conference titles with it and the fact that if you get behind by much you're screwed? I'm undecided on this.
Since Ga. Tech already does this, is there enough room in the ACC for another team running that offense? Personally this doesn't concern me as much since as the conference grows the teams that would play us and Tech in the same season shrinks.

I just think it is an interesting question and one that has been discussed before I know, but humor me on a Monday morning.

 

[Tr6deac]

I'm fine with this offense and would take the Navy coach. Talent as opposed to the ape offense has more to do with coming from behind. We've been behind a bunch this year.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

I wouldn't like watching it but if it won games I wouldn't care.

Wake's recruiting over the past two or three years indicates an interest in moving back towards a rush heavy option-style attack.

 

[DeacsOrDie]

I wouldn't like watching it but if it won games I wouldn't care.

Wake's recruiting over the past two or three years indicates an interest in moving back towards a rush heavy option-style attack.

Just curious, What makes you come to that? Recruiting bigger running backs and somewhat mobile QBs?

 

[bcobbdeacs]

Our first ACC Championship team ran the veer with great success. Only threw the ball 5-10 times a game.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

Just curious, What makes you come to that? Recruiting bigger running backs and somewhat mobile QBs?

Offensive line recruits, mobile QBs, different style running backs, as well as discussions over the past year or two with guys on the staff who said they were attempting to get back to that. I don't know if they still are (or if Grobe and company will even have a job after next Monday) but there was certainly interest in getting back to an option offense at some point within the past couple of years.

 

[Colonel Angus]

Ga Southern played Alabama under Saban a few seasons ago in Tuscaloosa and ran up 300+ rushing yards when Bama's defense was ranked #1 statistically.

Call it "LOWF" if you wish, but we will never be able to recruit to a high enough level to run a pro-style offense. I've been adamant over the years that Wake should commit 100% to running the pure flexbone or triple option. I remember in the early 90's watching Charlie Taafe's teams at the Citadel make opposing defenses look silly by running the triple option. Does anyone care to guess who the current offensive coordinator is at UCF?

Grobe's biggest downfall was moving away from a successful offensive philosophy which won him games at Ohio and early on at Wake because it wasn't sexy enough for recruits.

 

[bcobbdeacs]

Colonel Angus,
There is a little more to it than that but I agree with the part about not being able to recruit enough good players for a pro style approach.

 

[Demonbeck]

A misdirection offense like that requires you to be smarter and more disciplined than your opponents. Clearly, those two traits should be right in our wheelhouse as they are the only things we should have with regularity compared to teams like FSU and Clemson.

 

[deputydeacon]

Many of your top 25 teams are running some form of option football these days. It's not just the Fisher DeBerry's, Paul Johnson's, and Ken Niumatalolo's out there doing it. From Florida w/ Tebow, to Clemson w/ Boyd, to Baylor w/ Petty, to Oregon w/ Mariota...teams everywhere are running the option. They are just doing it from the gun. Many of the same principles are applied. People always talk about it being difficult to face the option because of only seeing it once or twice per year but that really isn't true. And...I can attest that facing it out of a gun team that is good at it is more daunting than one that runs it from under center. The passing game they employ is so much more advanced (which is the general downfall of teams like Ga. Tech, Navy, Air Force, etc.). In reality, it all boils down to Jimmies and Joes though!

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Many of your top 25 teams are running some form of option football these days. It's not just the Fisher DeBerry's, Paul Johnson's, and Ken Niumatalolo's out there doing it. From Florida w/ Tebow, to Clemson w/ Boyd, to Baylor w/ Petty, to Oregon w/ Mariota...teams everywhere are running the option. They are just doing it from the gun. Many of the same principles are applied. People always talk about it being difficult to face the option because of only seeing it once or twice per year but that really isn't true. And...I can attest that facing it out of a gun team that is good at it is more daunting than one that runs it from under center. The passing game they employ is so much more advanced (which is the general downfall of teams like Ga. Tech, Navy, Air Force, etc.). In reality, it all boils down to Jimmies and Joes though!

Good point, but most of the "option-gun" teams don't use the fullback dive, which makes the under the center flexbone/wishbone version different.

 

[DeacsOrDie]

I think the key to Deputy's post is the QB. Those QBs listed are all capable option QBs of which we didn't have in Price which is why we never should have attempted to run it.

 

[siff]

No one will ever be able to convince me that the only way to win games at Wake Forest is to run the option. Baylor, despite their loss the other night, has done pretty well - and they have to compete for recruits with Texas, TAMU, Texas Tech, Houston, SMU, Oklahoma, OK State, etc...

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Ga Southern played Alabama under Saban a few seasons ago in Tuscaloosa and ran up 300+ rushing yards when Bama's defense was ranked #1 statistically.

Call it "LOWF" if you wish, but we will never be able to recruit to a high enough level to run a pro-style offense. I've been adamant over the years that Wake should commit 100% to running the pure flexbone or triple option. I remember in the early 90's watching Charlie Taafe's teams at the Citadel make opposing defenses look silly by running the triple option. Does anyone care to guess who the current offensive coordinator is at UCF?

Grobe's biggest downfall was moving away from a successful offensive philosophy which won him games at Ohio and early on at Wake because it wasn't sexy enough for recruits.

I think a lot of our problem is despite the fact we've had one of the best WR's the last 4 years we've ever had, the current staff as least hasn't be able to recruit enough quality WR's to really be able to be a good passing team. Of course it seems the same can be said about not being able to recruit enough quality O-lineman to run the ball either, but I think with the flexbone it may be easier to recruit the type of lineman we would need to run it. For instance, Army runs that offense pretty effectively with 250lb lineman for goodness sake.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

No one will ever be able to convince me that the only way to win games at Wake Forest is to run the option. Baylor, despite their loss the other night, has done pretty well - and they have to compete for recruits with Texas, TAMU, Texas Tech, Houston, SMU, Oklahoma, OK State, etc...

Do you honestly ever see us being able to recruit the talent as the skill postions Baylor had been able to recently? I mean Baylor is flat loaded with talent at the skill positions.

 

[wfu22fan]

Our first ACC Championship team ran the veer with great success. Only threw the ball 5-10 times a game.

1970. It was a very good year

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Do you honestly ever see us being able to recruit the talent as the skill postions Baylor had been able to recently? I mean Baylor is flat loaded with talent at the skill positions.

The move to an option offense is probably not a bad idea, but I don't think it's because of skill positions. We had success with Riley, Tanner was decent and would have been much better with better line and a running game. Our receivers would have to do better but we had some pretty decent receiver talent over the years, especially in Camp and Givens. Our inability to protect the quarterback or run the ball at all is why a pro-style offense doesn't work for us, and that pretty much comes down to o-line, not specialty players.

Having said that, misdirection/option schemes with some cut blocking might cover some deficiencies on the line. It would at least do away with the 22 yard sacks.

 

[siff]

Do you honestly ever see us being able to recruit the talent as the skill postions Baylor had been able to recently? I mean Baylor is flat loaded with talent at the skill positions.

Are you familiar with Baylor's football history? If not, have a look.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baylor_Bears_football_seasons

They've traditionally sucked. Baylor has great academics and is surrounded by traditionally great football programs. Hmmm. What happened here? Is there something Baylor can offer to skill position players that we can't? Not at all. They simply found a coach whose offense attracts talent.

Posts like this amuse me. It's like people believe that magic or voodoo, magic that is unavailable to Wake, has made these historically bad programs relevant and able to bring in players.

 

[Pilchard]

I love watching good option teams. With that said, the upside of running that offense at WF is probably limited to the level of success slightly below the level of success that GT has had under Paul Johnson. Johnson is a great coach, and a decent (but not great) recruiter. Also, GT is a school that faces some of the same recruiting perceptions/limitations that WF does, but GT does have the benefit of recruiting in a state (GA) with more HS football talent than NC with only other major school in the state. Also, GT is in Atlanta not Winston-Salem. This is Johnson's 6th year at GT (GT has finished the ACC 5-3 4 times; 4-4 once and 7-1 once). They played in a bowl each year, and have won an ACC title.

At WF, would guess Johnson would make a bowl about half of his seasons with a typical year in the 3-5/4-4 range. With a lesser coach than Johnson in that offense, a typical season could easily be worse (compare Navy to Army even though each school runs a similar offensive system and recruits in the same pool of players). After an initial excitement, it would not take long for a portion of the fanbase to rag about the plodding style of football. At least, WF would return to cut blocking.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Are you familiar with Baylor's football history? If not, have a look.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baylor_Bears_football_seasons

They've traditionally sucked. Baylor has great academics and is surrounded by traditionally great football programs. Hmmm. What happened here? Is there something Baylor can offer to skill position players that we can't? Not at all. They simply found a coach whose offense attracts talent.

Posts like this amuse me. It's like people believe that magic or voodoo, magic that is unavailable to Wake, has made these historically bad programs relevant and able to bring in players.

I am very aware of Baylor's history, are you aware of where they are located ( a recruiting hot bed), their finances for facilities, etc. They're building a brand new stadium by the way. I think you discounting the differences between us and Baylor. Posts like yours amuse me.