• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Ukraine is game to you?

And besides, the US did pursue additional imperialist schemes for like 80 years following their success in Mexican American war... See westward expansion, Hawaii, Guam, the Philippines, etc. So, they weren't a dictatorship and winning territory in northern Mexico did not quell their imperialist thirst. You came up with like the worst possible counter example to OGB's post.
 
Aside from the notion that if you have a neighbor that repeatedly acts towards you in a particular (controlling, land grabbing) way, it’s probably better to consider their behavior rather than other neighbors when trying to predict how they’ll act moving forward.
 
You can refer to is as “ceding territory” or “appeasing a dictator” or use any number of phrases to describe it, but the truth is that Russia now controls that territory, and it’s extremely doubtful that the Ukrainian military is going to regain it. It’s obviously their choice to fight to the last man, but it seems pretty perverse for Americans to encourage that.
 
You also risk extending the war beyond the tipping point of Ukraine having the fighters available to keep defending themselves, in which the stalemate might turn into a full-out Russian victory
 
Self-determination!



myDeaconmyhand said:
You can refer to is as “ceding territory” or “appeasing a dictator” or use any number of phrases to describe it, but the truth is that Russia now controls that territory, and it’s extremely doubtful that the Ukrainian military is going to regain it. It’s obviously their choice to fight to the last man, but it seems pretty perverse for Americans to encourage that.
Click to expand...

Well, Russia controls a chunk less of it this morning, as rumblings are that Robotyne has been liberated. The real key on this axis is Tokmak, which sits at a major intersection of roads that lead to Melitpolol to the southwest and Berdyansk to the southeast. Both are on the Sea of Azov and would cut off the Crimean landbridge.

As a general proposition, it seems more perverse to me to enable genocide and the abduction of hundreds of thousands of children than it does to oppose it.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
You also risk extending the war beyond the tipping point of Ukraine having the fighters available to keep defending themselves, in which the stalemate might turn into a full-out Russian victory
Click to expand...
It seems pretty America-centric to think as though the US should be the final decision maker on something like this. Not saying that's what you are doing mdmh, but I see that sort of thought a lot. It's Ukraine's territory and Ukrainian soldiers dying, I think they should be the ones to decide when the war should be finished and what territory to cede in the end.

Ukraine isn't being led by idiots, and I'm sure they are aware of the scenario in which they fight for too long and things go badly. Leaving the decision about what territory to cede and what to fight for up to them seems the best course of action to me, as long as US military intelligence roughly agrees with them that continuing to fight is a reasonable course of action.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
You also risk extending the war beyond the tipping point of Ukraine having the fighters available to keep defending themselves, in which the stalemate might turn into a full-out Russian victory
Click to expand...
Ukraine has a population of 36 million, and the estimates I've seen are that they've suffered roughly 150,000 casualties. In the ACW, the North had a population of 19.2 million and suffered casualties of 850,000.

Peace parties in England and France thought it was pretty perverse to continue to encourage the North to keep fighting to preserve the union and end slavery. I think it was well worth it.
 
the better lesson, sailor, seems to be, if you let Putin occupy area (Crimea) he'll come back for more.
 
Not sure why the kidnapped children talk. Sailor and his ilk don't care about children. They got their judges and can now legislate their singular religious beliefs on the rest of us
 
Isn't that one of the issues that self limited the Mexican land grab? Adding additional lands at the time (end of the mexican war) would have added slave territory, so the US had a political faction not wanting expansion. Then later, you get French involvement, and our Civil War. Isn't one argument that if not for X, there would have been more expansion? Canada was invaded a couple of times by the US. If that had gone well, don't you think some of Canada would be US now?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top