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Updates to the Joel?

I have a hard time believing that Wake had passive revenue (profit) from basketball ticket sales in the last decade. I would honestly be very surprised that Wake basketball turned a profit, beyond what we receive from our share of conference revenue.
 
I don’t think this is true long term. It could be true in the short term, but not the life of the building. Passive revenue from those seats helped make sure we had the cash to buyout manning and hire Forbes after a decade of an empty arena. Student attendance is fairly fickle, at every school in the country, empty seats for donors still generate revenue when the team sucks.

There is also the issue of if Wake is going to do a major renovation or build new then having a reward for top givers being the seats closest to the court is quite the carrot. Give those to the students and convincing alums to dig deeper into their pockets becomes more difficult. Mit Shah having 4 floor seats close to the bench cut out from press row is not by accident. However, this is also the exact problem UNC has with the Dean Dome. UNC promised lifetime seats to the people who helped the most with the funding so they have no possibility to move their students along the side of the court. We may find ourselves in a situation where we have to do the same to secure enough donations for a new arena or major renovation($150M+).
 
Change the name.

No disrespect to Lawrence Joel.

Move the memorial to a new site.

Get rid of the teal seats.

I could be wrong but I’m fairly sure we replaced all the blue seating with black when Wake took control of the Joel and re-decorated the concourse
 
It is annoying that DR and others are obsessed with Duke and Cameron Indoor. Coach K was a singular hire - Duke's AD was either prescient or lucky or just a really good judge of potential, since there wasn't much in K's record to indicate that he would go on to be the GOAT. I would say it was a combo - lucky and a good choice. Trying to emulate something like that is fool's gold. But we don't have to - we have our coach. How successful will be be? Who knows. Will he be a Coach K - doubt it, but how many of those are there? (I don't like the guy but you can't deny his success. You can deny his class, in the face of all the people that worship him, but you can't deny the success.)

Similarly, Cameron Indoor is a relic that has become awesome and cool because Duke was smart enough to do minor updates and not replace it - they recognized what they had, once K started winning. Did you ever hear anything about Cameron prior to '86? I doubt it. That environment has been built by success - the arena focuses and emphasizes it. I've probably been to more games at Cameron than even DR, and I can tell you that the corners of the student section start being a little empty - even at Cameron - as soon as the team starts having a down year.

That being said, the configuration of Cameron is ideal for creating a raucous environment. I feel certain you could not build a replica today even if you wanted to - the bleachers are way too close to the court, little room for press row, fire exits are tiny, etc. But I would be in favor of taking our renovations to the Joel in that direction - smaller capacity, seating more vertical and closer to the court, etc.

The size of our student body is a real problem when it comes to deciding where to put them. Cameron only seats about 1100-1300 students in their famous student section and they have a larger student body and a much larger grad student body than we do - and decades of success has made these kids fans before they even get there. How many seats could we safely set aside for students and trust they would show up? Right now - like 50. After a year or two of success, I would hope 500. Assuming reconfigured seating as discussed, if I had my choice I would probably put just 2-3 rows along one sideline and the rest behind the visitors basket. You raise the donor seats behind those students along the side so they can see. Then you do everything else you can to set the program up for success so the kids get excited and it becomes the place to be.

For all the excitement around Duke basketball, the majority of Duke students do not go to games and half of them couldn't care less. You don't need everyone, you just need enough.
 
Counterpoint is that boomer generational wealth is staring down the barrel of significant estate taxes, so there's some liquidation of assets happening for charitable giving.

Good point. Boomers can hide their money in the Dogecoin Dome and get courtside seats for the rest of their lives, courtside seats for their kids after that, and the grandkids and great-grandkids can automatically get into Wake to keep the money flowing. Not a bad deal.
 
If I remember correctly, moving students behind the backboard happened around the same time as the football student section got moved from behind the Wake sideline to the edge of the other side. Was Grobe adamant about that?
We were told at the time that Wake wanted to make it more of a home stadium as opposed to a "home" and "away" stands. Additionally, the stadium didn't look so empty on TV.
I could be wrong but I’m fairly sure we replaced all the blue seating with black when Wake took control of the Joel and re-decorated the concourse
The original tan lower level seats were replaced in the early 00s, before Wake took it over. We did add a ton of Wake specific stuff to the concourse though when we took control.
 
They also wanted to increase ticket prices. To be fair, it made no sense that I sat about 10 rows up between the 30 and 40 yard lines as a student and young alum. We were sitting a few seats over from major donors as well.
 
I also heard there were complaints of the students standing in front of seated donors, which caused some issues. Those were some great seats though. Glad I got to experience both seating arrangements before they were moved during my undergrad years.
 
Would prefer a new facility, with a smaller capacity and better design to maximize student noise and home-court advantage. I think the location is fine, and if the God Dome land is an option, that would be fantastic.

I don't think it's impossible to make the Joel a much better venue. Not as good as a new facility, but a massive improvement to what we have now. Naming rights have to be on the table.

Either way, I fully expect changes the next five years and so glad Currie will be integral in that process.
 
Pretty embarrassing for Duke to be an 11 point favorite at home with all those fans next to the court and an old-ass POS on campus arena, only to lose a big game.

Maybe they should go to a more NBA-like building to coddle their cunt 5-star players and shithead syncophant fans.
 
Pretty embarrassing for Duke to be an 11 point favorite at home with all those fans next to the court and an old-ass POS on campus arena, only to lose a big game.

Maybe they should go to a more NBA-like building to coddle their cunt 5-star players and shithead syncophant fans.

I see the Cuse play at BC tomorrow night. BC’s 8600 seat on campus arena has really helped them establish a powerhouse program.
 
There is also the issue of if Wake is going to do a major renovation or build new then having a reward for top givers being the seats closest to the court is quite the carrot. Give those to the students and convincing alums to dig deeper into their pockets becomes more difficult. Mit Shah having 4 floor seats close to the bench cut out from press row is not by accident. However, this is also the exact problem UNC has with the Dean Dome. UNC promised lifetime seats to the people who helped the most with the funding so they have no possibility to move their students along the side of the court. We may find ourselves in a situation where we have to do the same to secure enough donations for a new arena or major renovation($150M+).

But our biggest donors have met to discuss how they make wake athletics elite. I think they want the best product more than they want a seat in a specific location. We can do DR’s design and still have a premium spot for the big money boosters to experience and even better environment.
 
If in 1989 the Joel was built in Durham and Cameron was moved to Winston, DR would be telling us about how we need to get rid of our antiquated building that no one wants to go to because it’s too hard to park. And that we need a larger stadium to show recruits that we mean business. Not to mention the easy accessibility is what leads to Duke’s Joel being sold out every year. And can you imagine the money we are losing by not being able to sell 14,000 tickets!? An outdated small arena is for losers!

I hate K, but he knows how to win at a record level, and he would have won in the Joel, the Dean Dome, the Carrier Dome, the Thomas and Mack Center, the Qubein Center, or any other building.
 
Having a smaller arena on campus would be dope tho. Times have changed and it’s going to be hard for us to get 14,000 people to a game again. We need a better environment if we want to keep Forbes. Hell even keep Forbes for next season would be an accomplishment.
 
Having a smaller arena on campus would be dope tho. Times have changed and it’s going to be hard for us to get 14,000 people to a game again. We need a better environment if we want to keep Forbes. Hell even keep Forbes for next season would be an accomplishment.

Yeah, a new, small arena would be great, as long as we have a good team. Which will require money for a great coaching staff. Otherwise, we’ll have the Conte Forum.
 
As someone who took the [name redacted]/Manning years off after missing very few games in the Joel from opening night in 1989 until Dino was canned, when I walked back into the building for the UNC game earlier this season, it just felt run down, old, cavernous and crappy. I'm not sure I agree that it has good bones. It's time for the Joel to retire or go under the knife for a complete redo from the court up with a focus on creating a loud, hostile environment. 1989 was a long time ago...paint and a few banners/signs aren't going to cut it.

Agreed. Don’t know if we have the money for a full rebuild, though. I’d definitely rather see us build new than update a building that’s not fit for its purpose anymore, but the accountants might disagree.
 
I think it comes down to whether or not Wake wants to host monster truck rallies, concerts, etc.
 
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