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US federal judge rules NSA phone program likely unconstitutional

This article has two of the many specific reasons why Snowden isn't a hero and must go to jail:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...clemency_the_nsa_leaker_hasn_t_proved_he.html

"But Snowden did much more than that. The documents that he gave the Washington Post’s Barton Gellman and the Guardian’s Glenn Greenwald have, so far, furnished stories about the NSA’s interception of email traffic, mobile phone calls, and radio transmissions of Taliban fighters in Pakistan’s northwest territories; about an operation to gauge the loyalties of CIA recruits in Pakistan; about NSA email intercepts to assist intelligence assessments of what’s going on inside Iran; about NSA surveillance of cellphone calls “worldwide,” an effort that (in the Post’s words) “allows it to look for unknown associates of known intelligence targets by tracking people whose movements intersect.” In his first interview with the South China Morning Post, Snowden revealed that the NSA routinely hacks into hundreds of computers in China and Hong Kong."

This directly put lives of American GIs at risk.It also allowed our enemy the ability to change how they communicated. This made our efforts in Afghanistan and Pakistan more difficult.

His intentional actions aided the enemy. There is no way around this fact.

"Mark Hosenball and Warren Strobel of Reuters later reported, in an eye-opening scoop, that Snowden gained access to his cache of documents by persuading 20 to 25 of his fellow employees to give him their logins and passwords, saying he needed the information to help him do his job as systems administrator. (Most of these former colleagues were subsequently fired.)"

"He gets himself placed at the NSA’s signals intelligence center in Hawaii for the sole purpose of pilfering extremely classified documents."


He ruined these people's lives to help himself. Heroes don't do that. Criminals do.

This was premeditated and just to show what happened in the US was wrong.
 
They're fair points, though. I posted a long while back that this basically comes down to whether people think the end justified the means, not whether Snowden put our national security at risk or broke the law. It's clear that he did.
 
WYdenchart.jpg
 
You lost us all with the word "slate".

Rather than dealing with FACTS that have been reported by many outlets and presented directly by Snowden in public, you attack an organization who is one of many.
 
Snowden is helping the Taliban now?! That fucker gets around.

He told a newspaper how we tracked them. Without a doubt that helps them avoid us. They are still shooting at and doing other missions against our troops.

This makes it harder for us to get intel.

What do you say to people and their families of his co-workers whom he got fired? Are you certain each was personally involved in spying on US citizens illegally? If not, Snowden screwed innocent co-workers.
 
He told a newspaper how we tracked them. Without a doubt that helps them avoid us. They are still shooting at and doing other missions against our troops.

This makes it harder for us to get intel.

What do you say to people and their families of his co-workers whom he got fired? Are you certain each was personally involved in spying on US citizens illegally? If not, Snowden screwed innocent co-workers.
I don't remember any quotes from Snowden where he talks about the Taliban? He's only done a few interviews and I think I've seen or read most of them.
 
The Slate story tells about it.

How about how he ruined the careers of over two dozen co-workers?
 
How about how he ruined the careers of over two dozen co-workers?

How about how he exposed the vast illegal and un-Constitutional actions of our government? The actions that give organizations like the NSA the power to continue expanding their power indefinitely by leveraging their illegal data to ruin the life/career/etc of anyone who might dare get in their way. You realize that he ruined his own career AND his entire life, right?

Oh how I wish this had happened under Bush so that we could see you praise Snowden as the biggest hero in the history of civil rights...
 
jury's still out on the constitutionality

Right. So far Snowden has leaked that the US is aggregating data on citizens and also leaked a whole lot of shit about how we spy on other countries.

Personally, I fucking hope we spy on other countries, so leaking that we tap some ambassador's cell phone or that we intercept a laptop headed for Afghanistan and track it pisses me off.

He's also accused the US of abusing the aggregated data on citizens - but as far as I've read there's is absolutely no proof that this has happened. Now things are getting leaked that are pretty much bullshit, like the iPhone hack where articles are being written that make it sound like every iPhone in the world has a wireless backdoor the US government can hop into and download all your shit. Actually they'd have to acquire your phone, jailbreak it, install software, then steal your shit. Which anyone can do, since jailbreaking is common. Why it surprises anyone that the government researched leveraging that capability is beyond me.

Maybe proof of misuse is coming, but so far the Snowden affair looks like a poorly thought-out act of bitterness more than a truly concerned citizen looking out for the constitution. You might forgive a military official with extensive access leaking information about how bad the treatment of Abu Ghraib had gotten over their concern for human rights, but if they also leak documentation and details of every military plan in action to whatever reporter or country will offer him aid, well then fuck that guy.
 
DC, I agree with 90% of what you said above. What I disagree with is this was about Snowden wanting to be a hero and not caring whom he hurt to do so. It's all about his ego. When ego gets involved, rationality is often lost.
 
Snowden has certainly redrawn the political discussion. Authoritarians vs Libertarians rather than the traditional Right vs. Left that usually dominates this forum. It's been interesting to watch some of the rightists and leftists line up with each other on both sides of this issue.
 
Right. So far Snowden has leaked that the US is aggregating data on citizens and also leaked a whole lot of shit about how we spy on other countries.

Personally, I fucking hope we spy on other countries, so leaking that we tap some ambassador's cell phone or that we intercept a laptop headed for Afghanistan and track it pisses me off.

He's also accused the US of abusing the aggregated data on citizens - but as far as I've read there's is absolutely no proof that this has happened. Now things are getting leaked that are pretty much bullshit, like the iPhone hack where articles are being written that make it sound like every iPhone in the world has a wireless backdoor the US government can hop into and download all your shit. Actually they'd have to acquire your phone, jailbreak it, install software, then steal your shit. Which anyone can do, since jailbreaking is common. Why it surprises anyone that the government researched leveraging that capability is beyond me.

Maybe proof of misuse is coming, but so far the Snowden affair looks like a poorly thought-out act of bitterness more than a truly concerned citizen looking out for the constitution. You might forgive a military official with extensive access leaking information about how bad the treatment of Abu Ghraib had gotten over their concern for human rights, but if they also leak documentation and details of every military plan in action to whatever reporter or country will offer him aid, well then fuck that guy.

Well said.
 
Right. So far Snowden has leaked that the US is aggregating data on citizens and also leaked a whole lot of shit about how we spy on other countries.

Personally, I fucking hope we spy on other countries, so leaking that we tap some ambassador's cell phone or that we intercept a laptop headed for Afghanistan and track it pisses me off.

He's also accused the US of abusing the aggregated data on citizens - but as far as I've read there's is absolutely no proof that this has happened. Now things are getting leaked that are pretty much bullshit, like the iPhone hack where articles are being written that make it sound like every iPhone in the world has a wireless backdoor the US government can hop into and download all your shit. Actually they'd have to acquire your phone, jailbreak it, install software, then steal your shit. Which anyone can do, since jailbreaking is common. Why it surprises anyone that the government researched leveraging that capability is beyond me.

Maybe proof of misuse is coming, but so far the Snowden affair looks like a poorly thought-out act of bitterness more than a truly concerned citizen looking out for the constitution. You might forgive a military official with extensive access leaking information about how bad the treatment of Abu Ghraib had gotten over their concern for human rights, but if they also leak documentation and details of every military plan in action to whatever reporter or country will offer him aid, well then fuck that guy.

Aren't the articles saying that NSA is involved in the manufacturing of iPhones?
 
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