Wake and A D

[knowell]

Which is all fine and good. Thank you, Ron Wellman for keeping Wake in the ACC and the ACC together. Why can't the AD apologists also agree that Ron Wellman has a responsibility for maintaining the health of the school's flagship program? He certainly has not and there have been zero consequences to date.

Much easier to give him credit for averting a disaster that may have been completely made up. It's pretty hard to put lipstick on the pig that is the basketball program.

Not so hard to give him credit for the complete lack of deaths by hippo's in the US during his tenure.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Which is all fine and good. Thank you, Ron Wellman for keeping Wake in the ACC and the ACC together. Why can't the AD apologists also agree that Ron Wellman has a responsibility for maintaining the health of the school's flagship program? He certainly has not and there have been zero consequences to date.

No arguments here. I assume I fall into the AD apologists group. The Athletic Director is responsible for the highs and the lows, no disputing that. I just don't think the common poster here gives him credit for his accomplishments as you just did.

 

[sailordeac]

Wellman was so full of himself when he hired [] who was clearly a disaster from the beginning; every knew it, and Wellman continued to act like those that lived and died with WF basketball were idiots. He compounded that disaster when he blamed fans for [] failures. He further contributed to the disaster by refusing to ever publicly recognize the harm []'s tenure inflicted on the program, and he sealed many, if not most, people's opinion of him, by Wellman's failing to ever accept any responsibility for destroying the basketball program. His smug treatment of the fans during after the [] reign of ineptitude is understandably impossible for many to get over.

That said, and the handling of the basketball program over the last 8+ years is a massive stain on Wellman's legacy at WF which will never be erased, does not mean that everything that Wellman did was a catastrophic failure (or that recognizing one accomplishment means acceptance of the basketball failure). Acknowledging certain accomplishments during Wellman's time at WF does not mean that RW gets a pass for the train wreck that WF has been since 2010. Just impossible for RW to ever admit: I got it wrong; I'm sorry. Massive character flaw.

very well put, the fact that Wellman thought that he could behave the way he did is a blot on his character that he has done nothing to erase, a decent person does not behave the way he behaved

 

[Rafi]

Wellman was so full of himself when he hired [] who was clearly a disaster from the beginning; every knew it, and Wellman continued to act like those that lived and died with WF basketball were idiots. He compounded that disaster when he blamed fans for [] failures. He further contributed to the disaster by refusing to ever publicly recognize the harm []'s tenure inflicted on the program, and he sealed many, if not most, people's opinion of him, by Wellman's failing to ever accept any responsibility for destroying the basketball program. His smug treatment of the fans during after the [] reign of ineptitude is understandably impossible for many to get over.

That said, and the handling of the basketball program over the last 8+ years is a massive stain on Wellman's legacy at WF which will never be erased, does not mean that everything that Wellman did was a catastrophic failure (or that recognizing one accomplishment means acceptance of the basketball failure). Acknowledging certain accomplishments during Wellman's time at WF does not mean that RW gets a pass for the train wreck that WF has been since 2010. Just impossible for RW to ever admit: I got it wrong; I'm sorry. Massive character flaw.

Good post.

 

[Rafi]

Rafi, are you an AD apologist? I actually appreciate your posts and it is clear to me that you care deeply about Wake Forest. I personally value our basketball program more than any of the Olympic Sports that you mentioned. As exciting as it is to be great at tennis, field hockey (the championships on this front were quite a long time ago) and soccer, those sports do not generate much interest out of Winston-Salem. If you are saying local fans and alumni, plus large donors are what are important to our AD, I think it is starting to make sense to me given the priorities and commitments that have been made to certain sports and not others.

No, I don't consider myself an AD apologist. It is my impression, however, that some on here do, which is why I pointed out that I agree with your position.

 

[Rafi]

Much easier to give him credit for averting a disaster that may have been completely made up. It's pretty hard to put lipstick on the pig that is the basketball program.

Not so hard to give him credit for the complete lack of deaths by hippo's in the US during his tenure.

There is a lot that happened, but in 2012 conference re-alignment was THE issue in college sports. In November of that year, Maryland did the unthinkable and left the ACC for the Big Ten. The ACC was in an extremely vulnerable position, with UNC, UVA, and Duke considering following Maryland, and FSU and Clemson considering a move to the SEC. If those moves had happened, I don't think there was any doubt that Wake would be in major trouble. At about the same time, Hatch and Wellman (as the senior ACC AD and soon-to-be chair of the NCAA basketball committee) directly led the fight to get Notre Dame to join the ACC, as they knew it would stabilize the conference. They were successful, the ACC signed a grant of rights TV deal (with Wellman again highly involved), and here we are in 2018 in a extremely stable and profitable ACC.

There were many articles that quoted Wellman and Hatch, but here is statement directly from the President of Notre Dame which erases any ambiguity regarding Wake's involvement (not that there was any at the time), "I also want to publicly acknowledge the pivotal role played in our discussions by Nathan Hatch, the current President of Wake Forest, the former Provost at Notre Dame, and a friend of mine and of many here."

 

[WFU Lurker]

There is a lot that happened, but in 2012 conference re-alignment was THE issue in college sports. In November of that year, Maryland did the unthinkable and left the ACC for the Big Ten. The ACC was in an extremely vulnerable position, with UNC, UVA, and Duke considering following Maryland, and FSU and Clemson considering a move to the SEC. If those moves had happened, I don't think there was any doubt that Wake would be in major trouble. At about the same time, Hatch and Wellman (as the senior ACC AD and soon-to-be chair of the NCAA basketball committee) directly led the fight to get Notre Dame to join the ACC, as they knew it would stabilize the conference. They were successful, the ACC signed a grant of rights TV deal (with Wellman again highly involved), and here we are in 2018 in a extremely stable and profitable ACC.

There were many articles that quoted Wellman and Hatch, but here is statement directly from the President of Notre Dame which erases any ambiguity regarding Wake's involvement (not that there was any at the time), "I also want to publicly acknowledge the pivotal role played in our discussions by Nathan Hatch, the current President of Wake Forest, the former Provost at Notre Dame, and a friend of mine and of many here."

Most of the conference realignment drama in 2012 was a bunch of bullshit made-up by WVU fans with hurt feelings. I don't really buy that UNC, UVA, or especially Duke ever seriously considered leaving the conference. Maybe FSU and Clemson, but there has been a rumor for several years that Florida, Kentucky, Texas A&M, and South Carolina have a deal to vote in unison to block the membership of their respective in-state rivals.

Furthermore, I would challenge the assumption that Notre Dame's partial membership shored up the conference on an immediate basis. Maybe the resulting incremental revenue made the grants of rights deal more certain, but that was the key to stability. I am sure that Hatch did play a big role in getting Notre Dame's commitment though.

 

[donaldross]

Wellman was so full of himself when he hired [] who was clearly a disaster from the beginning; every knew it, and Wellman continued to act like those that lived and died with WF basketball were idiots. He compounded that disaster when he blamed fans for [] failures. He further contributed to the disaster by refusing to ever publicly recognize the harm []'s tenure inflicted on the program, and he sealed many, if not most, people's opinion of him, by Wellman's failing to ever accept any responsibility for destroying the basketball program. His smug treatment of the fans during after the [] reign of ineptitude is understandably impossible for many to get over.

That said, and the handling of the basketball program over the last 8+ years is a massive stain on Wellman's legacy at WF which will never be erased, does not mean that everything that Wellman did was a catastrophic failure (or that recognizing one accomplishment means acceptance of the basketball failure). Acknowledging certain accomplishments during Wellman's time at WF does not mean that RW gets a pass for the train wreck that WF has been since 2010. Just impossible for RW to ever admit: I got it wrong; I'm sorry. Massive character flaw.

Agree completely. Somewhere during that run flipped a switch in me. I'm not going to pretend I like that guy. I feel sorry for the people working for him because they can't say it to his face. We can. He needs to fing leave. We all make mistakes. It's the not recognizing and moving past them which differentiate the losers from the winners in this world.

 

[HailToTheDeacons]

When Ron Wellman is reviewed by Hatch or the BoT or his reports, how much of his job performance is linked specifically to the Men's basketball record (or more complex: Men's basketball 'culture' at Wake)?

 

[morrison2951]

Apparently none.

 

[thatguy2016]

there will probably be additional rounds of conference re-alignment, maybe in the 2020's, maybe later

the way to avoid being left holding the bag at that time is to be relevant, and I'm not talking about men's tennis

 

[Pilchard]

there will probably be additional rounds of conference re-alignment, maybe in the 2020's, maybe later

the way to avoid being left holding the bag at that time is to be relevant, and I'm not talking about men's tennis

Generally agree, but UCONN (men's) hoop won 4 Nattys in 15 years (which is pretty incredible) and still got kicked to the curb in the re-alignment jumble. So, being "relevant" is not always the determinative factor.

 

[mebanedeac]

Apparently none.

Well, he has succeeded in avoiding the embarrassment of having banners taken down.

 

[Deaconblue]

there will probably be additional rounds of conference re-alignment, maybe in the 2020's, maybe later

the way to avoid being left holding the bag at that time is to be relevant, and I'm not talking about men's tennis

ACC Grant of rights extends to 2036 so unlikely anybody leaves before them. Nobody leaving all home game TV and radio revenue behind.

 

[diverdeac]

There is a lot that happened, but in 2012 conference re-alignment was THE issue in college sports. In November of that year, Maryland did the unthinkable and left the ACC for the Big Ten. The ACC was in an extremely vulnerable position, with UNC, UVA, and Duke considering following Maryland, and FSU and Clemson considering a move to the SEC. If those moves had happened, I don't think there was any doubt that Wake would be in major trouble. At about the same time, Hatch and Wellman (as the senior ACC AD and soon-to-be chair of the NCAA basketball committee) directly led the fight to get Notre Dame to join the ACC, as they knew it would stabilize the conference. They were successful, the ACC signed a grant of rights TV deal (with Wellman again highly involved), and here we are in 2018 in a extremely stable and profitable ACC.

There were many articles that quoted Wellman and Hatch, but here is statement directly from the President of Notre Dame which erases any ambiguity regarding Wake's involvement (not that there was any at the time), "I also want to publicly acknowledge the pivotal role played in our discussions by Nathan Hatch, the current President of Wake Forest, the former Provost at Notre Dame, and a friend of mine and of many here."

Yes, the failures of this basketball program are on DM's shoulders now. RW has been a good AD in changing times. Things can go on too long though, and I think it is getting time for Ron to step aside.

 

[DistrictDeacon]

Wellman was so full of himself when he hired [] who was clearly a disaster from the beginning; every knew it, and Wellman continued to act like those that lived and died with WF basketball were idiots. He compounded that disaster when he blamed fans for [] failures. He further contributed to the disaster by refusing to ever publicly recognize the harm []'s tenure inflicted on the program, and he sealed many, if not most, people's opinion of him, by Wellman's failing to ever accept any responsibility for destroying the basketball program. His smug treatment of the fans during after the [] reign of ineptitude is understandably impossible for many to get over.

Exactly. And that's how you can identify the shills on this thread. Those who ignore the fact that Wellman took no responsibility for his failures, and actively blamed the fans.

If you were a WFU fan first, you would be offended by how he treated the fanbase.

 

[knowell]

Yes, the failures of this basketball program are on DM's shoulders now. RW has been a good AD in changing times. Things can go on too long though, and I think it is getting time for Ron to step aside.

Wellman has been good by hiring awful coaches who were unprepared for the job and predictably destroyed the flagship program???

Some of you deserve this shit.

Might as well move down to the SoConn. A watered down ACC with UCONN would have been better than this level of suckitude.

 

[wfunme]

Wellman must have full authority to hire coaches from Hatch. He is never questioned about his choices, and he does not care what the bigger donors have to say.

 

[Buttermaker]

Anyone got insight into a candidate to replace him from within the AD when he's ready to retire? Anyone being groomed for the job, such as Barry Faircloth?

 

[diverdeac]

Wellman has been good by hiring awful coaches who were unprepared for the job and predictably destroyed the flagship program???

Some of you deserve this shit.

Might as well move down to the SoConn. A watered down ACC with UCONN would have been better than this level of suckitude.

To Me DM was not some pulled out of his ass hire like BZZ who could actually coach but if anyone spent more than five minutes with the guy you would know he was not ACC material. DM is not getting the job done, I was one of the early ones calling for a change. He is not the answer and any more time he spends in the job is a waste. I don't think this is RW's fault. Seriously with the resume he has I am shocked DM is such a shitty coach.