Wake Baseball 2015

[Deacfreak07]

Wake doesn't play that shell game with financial aid that Vandy, UVa, Standford, Rice, etc... plays.

Our coaches have requested we follow their example but our administration refuses. Until we follow suit, there is no reason to fire the coach because our baseball program has a structural problem that won't be fixed with a coaching change.

Should we do that though? Seems like a misuse of those funds to me.

 

[inspectah]

Wake doesn't play that shell game with financial aid that Vandy, UVa, Standford, Rice, etc... plays.

Our coaches have requested we follow their example but our administration refuses. Until we follow suit, there is no reason to fire the coach because our baseball program has a structural problem that won't be fixed with a coaching change.

Was the situation different under the Greer/Moranda regime? Wake baseball has been successful in the past, so unless the scholarship cost problem is recent in origin, you absolutely have to look at the program's leadership.

 

[shaggindeac2]

Junior college players helped fill the roster in the Greer / Moranda years. Administration ended that quickly. Administration and academics will always rule at Wake. P.S. Dook is now doing what Stanford, Vandy and Virginia do in baseball. Administration and academics could care less about athletics.

 

[HugeDeacFan]

I blame Hatch.

 

[Rafi]

Should we do that though? Seems like a misuse of those funds to me.

You can only give an academic scholarship to a recruited athlete if he/she is academically qualified for that scholarship, which is usually based on high school class rank, GPA, and/or standardized test scores. So, if applied appropriately, then no, I don't think it's a misuse of funds. I think some schools are stretching the rules regarding this though, and giving academic scholarships to athletes that are probably not qualified academically for the scholarship. Even that is not necessarily a problem in my mind (except that it is against NCAA rules) if it is done openly and is clear that the athlete met the minimum qualifications for the scholarship.

 

[WakeForestRanger]

Was the situation different under the Greer/Moranda regime? Wake baseball has been successful in the past, so unless the scholarship cost problem is recent in origin, you absolutely have to look at the program's leadership.

UVa, Vandy, and company were not doing that then. The North Carolina legislature also passed a bill allowing the state schools to charge in state tution for their athletes regardless of where they were from. In addition Wake's tution has increased dramatically since the Greer era, so it is not as easy for a baseball player to just pay the difference at Wake.

Losing the Junior College pipeline is also a major loss from the Greer years.

Walter may not be the answer for our baseball program. But until Wake decides it wants to even the game with its peer schools, bringing in a new staff will not dramatically improve the situation.

 

[Deacfreak07]

You can only give an academic scholarship to a recruited athlete if he/she is academically qualified for that scholarship, which is usually based on high school class rank, GPA, and/or standardized test scores. So, if applied appropriately, then no, I don't think it's a misuse of funds. I think some schools are stretching the rules regarding this though, and giving academic scholarships to athletes that are probably not qualified academically for the scholarship. Even that is not necessarily a problem in my mind (except that it is against NCAA rules) if it is done openly and is clear that the athlete met the minimum qualifications for the scholarship.

I would love for the baseball team to be better, but is the success of the baseball team worth more to the school than more academic scholarships available to the general student population?

 

[Rafi]

I would love for the baseball team to be better, but is the success of the baseball team worth more to the school than more academic scholarships available to the general student population?

Good question, and obviously there are a variety of opinions on this topic. My thought is that a great student could be someone that excels in one area (math, athletics, music, acting, etc), but may not have a great verbal SAT, or class rank, or whatever measure might be construed as important to the university. A diverse student body, in terms of interests, areas of excellence, background, etc. makes for a more vibrant university. Each student brings something different to the university, and I might select an excellent baseball player (or violinist, entrepreneur, or scientist) over a student with better grades but no area of excellence.

 

[Deacfreak07]

Good question, and obviously there are a variety of opinions on this topic. My thought is that a great student could be someone that excels in one area (math, athletics, music, acting, etc), but may not have a great verbal SAT, or class rank, or whatever measure might be construed as important to the university. A diverse student body, in terms of interests, areas of excellence, background, etc. makes for a more vibrant university. Each student brings something different to the university, and I might select an excellent baseball player (or violinist, entrepreneur, or scientist) over a student with better grades but no area of excellence.

But there is already more scholarship money available for baseball players specifically, and student-athletes in general.

 

[WFU Lurker]

Good question, and obviously there are a variety of opinions on this topic. My thought is that a great student could be someone that excels in one area (math, athletics, music, acting, etc), but may not have a great verbal SAT, or class rank, or whatever measure might be construed as important to the university. A diverse student body, in terms of interests, areas of excellence, background, etc. makes for a more vibrant university. Each student brings something different to the university, and I might select an excellent baseball player (or violinist, entrepreneur, or scientist) over a student with better grades but no area of excellence.

We have specialized scholarships for areas of excellence. Athletic scholarships obviously, but also for art and entrepreneurship ( http://financialaid.wfu.edu/merit-b...l-scholarships-for-distinguished-achievement/ ).

If funds were donated for an academic scholarship then they should go to people who excelled academically and should not be re-appropriated to further the athletics program. If I was a donor, I would obviously be furious if that occurred.

 

[BacktoBack]

Cue old man music but I miss fielding a good baseball team in an on campus field. Some of my fondest memories are finishing up with classes and walking over to Hooks with friend to enjoy the sun and good baseball..

 

[Rafi]

We have specialized scholarships for areas of excellence. Athletic scholarships obviously, but also for art and entrepreneurship ( http://financialaid.wfu.edu/merit-b...l-scholarships-for-distinguished-achievement/ ).

If funds were donated for an academic scholarship then they should go to people who excelled academically and should not be re-appropriated to further the athletics program. If I was a donor, I would obviously be furious if that occurred.

If I was a donor and an academically gifted baseball player received a scholarship I supported, I would be OK with that.

 

[Deacfreak07]

If I was a donor and an academically gifted baseball player received a scholarship I supported, I would be OK with that.

Me too, but that's not exactly what we are talking about here.

 

[DemonDeacon92]

Should we do that though? Seems like a misuse of those funds to me.

Wellman has mentioned that "we're looking into that," regarding financial aid tricks that Vandy uses, but I bet the admin nixed that.

 

[WFU Lurker]

If I was a donor and an academically gifted baseball player received a scholarship I supported, I would be OK with that.

If said player was the best academically qualified person for that scholarship then I'd be delighted. If there a non-baseball player better fit the guidelines of that scholarship it would be another story. And that's really what we're talking about here. Wake gives out very, very few academic scholarships. It would be extremely rare that a hypothetical baseball player would actually be the most deserving of an academic scholarship.

Now, if it's financial aid (non-merit based) that's an entirely different story. I suspect that's what the other schools do. Or they have "academic" scholarships that aren't endowed and come out of the general fund.

 

[Rafi]

Me too, but that's not exactly what we are talking about here.

It's what I'm talking about. I don't think academic scholarships should go to baseball players that have poor grades or were barely accepted to the school. But I do think it's OK to consider baseball (or any other sport or activity), when selecting a student for a scholarship. As an example, when choosing between the following two students, I might choose the baseball player (and this is what Vandy, Rice, etc. do):

Student A - Graduated top 5% of class, scored top 5% on SAT, wrote essays considered to be top 5%
Student B - Graduated top 10% of class, scored top 20% on SAT, wrote essays considered to be top 5%, considered top 100 baseball player in US

 

[WFU Lurker]

It's what I'm talking about. I don't think academic scholarships should go to baseball players that have poor grades or were barely accepted to the school. But I do think it's OK to consider baseball (or any other sport or activity), when selecting a student for a scholarship. As an example, when choosing between the following two students, I might choose the baseball player (and this is what Vandy, Rice, etc. do):

Student A - Graduated top 5% of class, scored top 5% on SAT, wrote essays considered to be top 5%
Student B - Graduated top 10% of class, scored top 20% on SAT, wrote essays considered to be top 5%, considered top 100 baseball player in US

Student B may not have even got into Wake without being a baseball player.

On the margins, sure, give the baseball player the scholarship, but only if the academic credentials are close. What I am claiming (and have no way to prove or disprove, other than anecdotal evidence), is that very few baseball players have academic credentials that are close to those of the <50 students per class that earn academic scholarships.

 

[Turfg]

You don't need academic scholarships, you need the need based scholarships. That, my friends, is the ticket.

It's also what many other schools are doing.

 

[StrickDeac]

We've got two baseball guys running the show right now. That's fine, I have no real problem with that.

My problem is this. We have (and continue to plan to) invested heavily in our baseball facilities despite having a very poor product and poor fan turnout.

My fear is that even if we can get to the point where we're average-to-good at baseball, will fans even show up? There's little-to-no atmosphere at the games, and we have a huge stadium that we'll never sell out unless we're playing UNC or NC State on a warm sunny weekend.

Seems like we're investing so much in a no-win situation, especially if the admin won't grudge.

 

[VaDeac]

We've got two baseball guys running the show right now. That's fine, I have no real problem with that.

My problem is this. We have (and continue to plan to) invested heavily in our baseball facilities despite having a very poor product and poor fan turnout.

My fear is that even if we can get to the point where we're average-to-good at baseball, will fans even show up? There's little-to-no atmosphere at the games, and we have a huge stadium that we'll never sell out unless we're playing UNC or NC State on a warm sunny weekend.

Seems like we're investing so much in a no-win situation, especially if the admin won't grudge.

All of this.
The Dash is hard to compete with I'm sure. Location, promotions...