Wake/BC

[Strickland33]

He's not a redshirt junior. Is he even close to graduating? He's coming back. Otherwise he has to sit out a year and some institution has to devote two years of a scholarship to a player who disappeared as a junior.

I have no clue. I'm just saying that it's one thing to dislike Devin and it's another to suggest that nobody would take him if he were to part ways with Wake.

 

[Deac83]

Devin would have to sit out a year before playing his Sr. year, unless he graduates this year.

 

[KVegasDeac]

I have no clue. I'm just saying that it's one thing to dislike Devin and it's another to suggest that nobody would take him if he were to part ways with Wake.

Not saying no college would take him, but I am saying that a good D-1 school would shy away from a kid who has a habit of disappearing toward the end of each season, is soft against better competition, and has a serious attitude problem...and who played for [Redacted].

Devin could be very good. He's playing out of position against some of the best players in college basketball and at times does a decent job. But then he gets weird or tired or frustrated and quits. He knows other teams are going to come at him, but he often acts like he's not ready for them. I don't know how much coaching will help him. I mean, a coach can't change a kid's personality. they are who they are.

 

[wfu22fan]

What nobody here seems to want to accept is the fact that the expansion of ACC basketball to include teams like Louisville, Syracuse & Pittsburgh has made it much harder for a small school like WF to compete on a consistent basis, if at all....no matter who the coach is. Hell, it was hard enough when we only had to compete with Duke, Carolina and occasionally NC State or Maryland. The ACC has been around for 60 years now....and WF has only won 4 conference championships, which came in back-to-back years in 1961-62 & 1995-96.....and it is no coincidence that those teams happened to have two of the greatest players in WF history: Len Chappell & Tim Duncan.

The hard, cold fact is that WF should probably be competing in a mid-major conference now, rather than the ACC, with today's huge money-driven athletic programs in the power conferences. We don't really belong in the ACC today....and we wouldn't be in it if we were not a charter member 60 years ago. If you don't like to hear that, just look at the numbers: 4 conference championships in basketball in 62 years & 2 conference championships in football in 62 years. Do you call that "competing? All the frustration & lashing out over performances in the two major sports that we have seen in the last five years or so is going to basically be a fixture here as we try to accomplish the impossible in this new ACC. Oh, I'm sure we can do better than we've done in the last five years....but it will only be relative. If anyone thinks that WF can compete with Duke, Carolina & Louisville, etc. for championships in basketball on any kind of a regular basis...or with Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Miami & Pittsburgh for championships in football, he is just deluding himself.

So, shoot the messenger if it will make you feel better.....but the reality of the situation is not going to change.

You make some good points , but how many ACC football championships have UNC, NCSU and Duke won since 1970? How many ACC basketball titles has NCSU won since 1990? How many ACC basketball titles has Clemson won ? How many ACC football and basketball titles has UVA won since 1990?

 

[ProbationDeac]

What nobody here seems to want to accept is the fact that the expansion of ACC basketball to include teams like Louisville, Syracuse & Pittsburgh has made it much harder for a small school like WF to compete on a consistent basis, if at all....no matter who the coach is. Hell, it was hard enough when we only had to compete with Duke, Carolina and occasionally NC State or Maryland. The ACC has been around for 60 years now....and WF has only won 4 conference championships, which came in back-to-back years in 1961-62 & 1995-96.....and it is no coincidence that those teams happened to have two of the greatest players in WF history: Len Chappell & Tim Duncan.

The hard, cold fact is that WF should probably be competing in a mid-major conference now, rather than the ACC, with today's huge money-driven athletic programs in the power conferences. We don't really belong in the ACC today....and we wouldn't be in it if we were not a charter member 60 years ago. If you don't like to hear that, just look at the numbers: 4 conference championships in basketball in 62 years & 2 conference championships in football in 62 years. Do you call that "competing? All the frustration & lashing out over performances in the two major sports that we have seen in the last five years or so is going to basically be a fixture here as we try to accomplish the impossible in this new ACC. Oh, I'm sure we can do better than we've done in the last five years....but it will only be relative. If anyone thinks that WF can compete with Duke, Carolina & Louisville, etc. for championships in basketball on any kind of a regular basis...or with Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Miami & Pittsburgh for championships in football, he is just deluding himself.

So, shoot the messenger if it will make you feel better.....but the reality of the situation is not going to change.

If you're correct, what is your solution? Leave the ACC and move to a "mid major" conference?

It's too early to make a judgment call on Manning. I am definitely concerned about the size of some of the losses and the fact that the team's confidence looks shot at this point. With that said, he needs to get more talented players here and see what he can do then.

 

[FckVwls]

I think BKF arguments hold more water for football but less so for basketball. A great coach could build a program here with our history/ACC/location. We aren't a bottom tier P5 job in basketball.

 

[bluefish]

bkf is not only the greatest marlin fisherman of all time, but also the greatest tuna fisherman of all time.

Whadda you think, brews?

 

[Shorty]

I will agree that the situation is more desperate in football than basketball...for obvious reasons. Even in basketball, though, the deck is stacked against us with the direction the mega-conferences have gone and the resources necessary to keep up. Because of our size, academic requirements and (lack of) social atmosphere, etc., among other things, attracting the necessary athletes to do so on a regular basis would involve a major "de-facto" lowering of our academic standards...which several posters are constantly alluding to with code words like "flexibility" and "exceptions". If some of our fans/students/alumni want us to take that direction, they obviously have a right to that opinion....but let's not fool ourselves that we can compete with Duke, Carolina & Louisville, etc. without doing this.

And in response to ProbationDeac, the answer is not an easy one. I think we would be better off in a mid-major conference. I think we are far more suited for a mid-major conference by most quantifiable standards....but I don't know how, at this point, that such a move could ever be made. As I have said, really the only reason we are in the ACC today is because we have been "grandfathered" in as a charter member. If the ACC was forming today, there is no way WF would be given any consideration in becoming a member. And we shouldn't thumb our noses at the mid-majors. They are playing better & better basketball every year now...for the same reasons mentioned regarding football & basketball. It doesn't take 40 to 50 quality athletes or anywhere nearly as much money to operate a successful basketball program as it does a football program. Schools like Temple, St Josephs, Xavier, VCU & Davidson, etc. would offer quality basketball and make for great competition with WF if they were ever placed together in a conference. The level of football would be lower, but we would be more competitive and going to the games would still be an enjoyable experience.

However, history has brought WF to the place it is today and I don't know what you do about it. The only thing I feel fairly certain about is that going forward the competitive disadvantages we face are only going to get worse.

In 1980 Duke essentially took a flyer on a 33 year-old coach with only five years of head coaching experience, all of it at Army. And he had just gone 9-17 in his last year there. If Duke had been hiring a 33 year-old Bill Foster in 1980 instead of K, they'd likely be ordinary today.

As you are fond of saying, it's all about the coach. I'm certainly not comparing Manning to K. But I am willing to be patient and let him get a couple of of his own classes in here and see what he can do. I believe Manning will recruit and coach at high P5 level. There is no reason we can't compete with teams at the top of the ACC in basketball.

Football will always be a different issue for us. But the ACC is the best P5 conference we could be in with other small-ish programs that often struggle like Syracuse, Pitt, UVA, Duke, and BC along two of the weakest state university football programs in the country. I believe Clawson will make us competitive as well. Before he basically quit on the program, Grobe proved it was possible.

 

[Milhouse]

things are a little different now than it was in 1980.

 

[Shorty]

things are a little different now than it was in 1980.

I had hair in 1980.

 

[ChrisL68]

bkf wants Wake to fail. He can pontificate about how much greater life was in the 70s and mention bobby knight and carl tacy over and over again. If we start succeeding, you can be sure that the word thug will start entering his posts.

 

[inspectah]

Ninety percent or more of Wake's problems in athletics are traceable to the leadership in the AD. It's simple. If we have people with the right skill sets leading the AD, people who know how to find and land great coaches, manage them, and who don't have low expectations, Wake will be successful in most or all sports more often than not. There is plentiful evidence from the last few years that Wake doesn't have that kind of leadership right now.

 

[WFUWaldo]

In 1980 Duke essentially took a flyer on a 33 year-old coach with only five years of head coaching experience, all of it at Army. And he had just gone 9-17 in his last year there. If Duke had been hiring a 33 year-old Bill Foster in 1980 instead of K, they'd likely be ordinary today.

As you are fond of saying, it's all about the coach. I'm certainly not comparing Manning to K. But I am willing to be patient and let him get a couple of of his own classes in here and see what he can do. I believe Manning will recruit and coach at high P5 level. There is no reason we can't compete with teams at the top of the ACC in basketball.

Hard to truly compare Wake and Duke since Duke won the ACC 7 times and went to four Final Fours before K's arrival. Even before K, Duke had a stronger basketball tradition.

 

[WinkinDeac]

ICYMI: Codi named honorable mention ACC

WINSTON-SALEM, N.C. - Wake Forest junior guard Codi Miller-McIntyre has been named honorable mention All-ACC, as voted upon by the Atlantic Coast Sports Media Association (ACSMA).

Miller-McIntyre has proven to be one of top all-around guards in the ACC, developing into a triple-double threat this season. The Concord, N.C. native averaged 14.3 points, 4.8 rebounds and 4.1 assists per game during the regular season.

Miller-McIntyre leads the team in scoring and assists, ranks second in rebounding, steals and field goal percentage and fifth in blocks and 3-pointers. He ranks 12th in the ACC in scoring and 10th in field goal percentage.

During conference play, Miller-McIntyre averaged 15.6 points, 4.8 rebounds and 4.2 assists per game. He ranks ninth in the league in scoring, ninth in assists and sixth in field goal percentage in ACC games.