Wake Forest vs. Pitt Game Thread - We Are Such Losers

[mebanedeac]

Skip was exceptional in public relations in large part because he really liked people and, apparently, loved Wake Forest.
Not sure Wake will ever have his equal as a motivator on and off the court.

That said, endeavoring to create enthusiasm is part of the job. And the pay is pretty good.

 

[MichDeac25]

I agree with DCDeac. When you watch the games intently, it's clear the team has a few holes. The biggest one has been a complete lack of production from our perimeter players other than Crawford, a true frosh. CMM has had a few good games lately but has blown the rest of the year. Wilbekin's weaknesses have become really apparent. Hudson has finally come alive - but damn - he's a chucker that Costanza could be proud of. McClinton has been a bit better as of late. And Manning has gotten far more out of Rondale than anyone here expected. In part, because he's had to. If the other guys were killing it, Rondale wouldn't be seeing minutes.

My biggest criticism so far has been Manning's overplaying of a few guys at the expense of what I see as better options. For a while now, I've been calling for Wilbekin to find a lot more pine. His defensive liabilities don't make up for his 3-point ability except for maybe 10 mins/game. I really think Rondale is a better option. I would have had Collins starting over Dinos a while ago. Dinos is a 15-20 min guy right now. Moore has been coming on but there have been games he was clearly winded. Commentators have noted it. It was visible on TV and even people sitting near the court have commented on it here. I still think he could get in a for a few more minutes.

But FT's have clearly cost us this year and Danny doesn't many options there with the current lineup. People are hypercritical of end of game situations that have cost us. Some players have made really bad plays in those situations as well.

We have 3 really, really good freshmen. We have a widebody with post moves coming in next year and at least 3 very good shooters. I have no idea how Donovan Mitchell will do. He looks tall and skilled but I haven't seen enough.

The criticism calling for Manning to be fired now is just ridiculous. Even beyond it not being justified, do you have any idea what that would look like on the basketball coach job market? Fire Dino after 3 years after reaching tourney twice, fire [name redacted] after 4 shitty seasons, fire Manning after 2 season when he didn't immediately improve upon what [name redacted] left him. Any coach who is already proven and not willing to take any decent position offered to him is going to be skeptical of that job opening.

 

[deactherunner]

Did we ever find out where Rondale was?

 

[PaddyWF]

Was a bummer that Crawford had two good chances to win the game, settled for a 3 and missed, then started to drive but looked like he was indecisive and tried a weird baseline runner/jumper type thing that never had a chance. Bet he learns from those for the next close one.

Think it was vs Vtech, he did almost the exact same thing in almost the same situation.

 

[wfu22fan]

I love this myth that I defended [name redacted]. I have absolutely zero interest in "told you so" nonsense on an internet message board with strangers. I do love the game of basketball and enjoy discussing it, even when we suck balls.

I hated the [name redacted] hire and said so. I liked the Manning hire and said so. We'll see how it goes next year. [name redacted] was essentially skipping a recruiting class while Manning was bringing in the Collins/Crawford/Moore class if you line up year 1, so some level of optimism is not as ridiculous as those that enjoy wallowing in our failures would lead us to believe.

These simpleton arguments where posters try to paint everyone into some extreme corner are exactly like the worst parts of the politics board. I'm sure it makes you feel better about trashing the program to paint posters as moron [name redacted] supporters or Manning as being "clueless" about basketball - which he's devoted his entire life to. You and 22fan can just keep up the vitriol if it makes your days brighter.

There might be more than 2 posters who have expressed concern about Manning's in game coaching. The moron post by me was wrong but 10 losses in a row with pretty good talent (after a good start to the season) can drive a lifelong WFU fan up the wall. Most WF fans I have talked to are just exasperated. The UVA and Pitt games have seemed to upset fans more than the others.

 

[RChildress107]

I agree with DCDeac. When you watch the games intently, it's clear the team has a few holes. The biggest one has been a complete lack of production from our perimeter players other than Crawford, a true frosh. CMM has had a few good games lately but has blown the rest of the year. Wilbekin's weaknesses have become really apparent. Hudson has finally come alive - but damn - he's a chucker that Costanza could be proud of. McClinton has been a bit better as of late. And Manning has gotten far more out of Rondale than anyone here expected. In part, because he's had to. If the other guys were killing it, Rondale wouldn't be seeing minutes.

My biggest criticism so far has been Manning's overplaying of a few guys at the expense of what I see as better options. For a while now, I've been calling for Wilbekin to find a lot more pine. His defensive liabilities don't make up for his 3-point ability except for maybe 10 mins/game. I really think Rondale is a better option. I would have had Collins starting over Dinos a while ago. Dinos is a 15-20 min guy right now. Moore has been coming on but there have been games he was clearly winded. Commentators have noted it. It was visible on TV and even people sitting near the court have commented on it here. I still think he could get in a for a few more minutes.

But FT's have clearly cost us this year and Danny doesn't many options there with the current lineup. People are hypercritical of end of game situations that have cost us. Some players have made really bad plays in those situations as well.

We have 3 really, really good freshmen. We have a widebody with post moves coming in next year and at least 3 very good shooters. I have no idea how Donovan Mitchell will do. He looks tall and skilled but I haven't seen enough.

The criticism calling for Manning to be fired now is just ridiculous. Even beyond it not being justified, do you have any idea what that would look like on the basketball coach job market? Fire Dino after 3 years after reaching tourney twice, fire [name redacted] after 4 shitty seasons, fire Manning after 2 season when he didn't immediately improve upon what [name redacted] left him. Any coach who is already proven and not willing to take any decent position offered to him is going to be skeptical of that job opening.

great post.

This team has a lot of shit it needs to fix before next year (free throws, defensive effort, mental toughness, substitutions, etc.) and a huge hole in the roster to replace (Devin).

The good news is that most of that shit is fixable and we have some pieces we can mix and match to replace most of Devin's production down low.

It's way too early to write off Manning. It's incredibly frustrating to see the team absolutely fall apart down the stretch yet again, but not surprising considering our best perimeter player is a freshman and our only upperclassmen have never known anything else. I will say that next year needs to be the year it starts to come together.

 

[Jroc25]

We should have a "funeral" for this season like the Saints did after their Super Bowl season

 

[DCDeac]

We should have a "funeral" for this season like the Saints did after their Super Bowl season

True - plus with the exit of Codi and Devin (and McClinton being a non-factor), it'd also be a funeral for all things [Redacted] as the last bastions of his putrid tenure here take their leave.

 

[Strattocaster]

great post.

This team has a lot of shit it needs to fix before next year (free throws, defensive effort, mental toughness, substitutions, etc.) and a huge hole in the roster to replace (Devin).

The good news is that most of that shit is fixable and we have some pieces we can mix and match to replace most of Devin's production down low.

It's way too early to write off Manning. It's incredibly frustrating to see the team absolutely fall apart down the stretch yet again, but not surprising considering our best perimeter player is a freshman and our only upperclassmen have never known anything else. I will say that next year needs to be the year it starts to come together.

Agreed. We should know by this time next year in Manning can pull this off.

 

[Deac and Dunk]

Just because DM has devoted his life to basketball doesn't make him a good coach or the right person to make Wake relevant. He knew what he was getting into and makes a lot of money. I'm also not seeing any effort with the fan base. He's very stubborn and if you're going to lose like this at least work the fans and give us some hope. VT's ceiling is not as high as ours but Buzz has done much more in his second year than DM by a long shot.

I'd take LeDay, Bibbs & Allen over any of our guys. VT has more talent & they're a lower echelon team. We're not even in the same universe as the top tier teams talent-wise. Amazing that the majority of the board fails to see it.

 

[RacerDeac]

True - plus with the exit of Codi and Devin (and McClinton being a non-factor), it'd also be a funeral for all things [name redacted] as the last bastions of his putrid tenure here take their leave.

Rondale says hi.

 

[RacerDeac]

We're not even in the same universe as the top tier teams talent-wise. Amazing that the majority of the board fails to see it.

Who on this board fails to see that?

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Who on this board fails to see that?

No one, it just sounds good to those that want to try to defend Manning.

 

[RacerDeac]

No one, it just sounds good to those that want to try to defend Manning.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

This discussion would be different if our '16 class was better. We can argue back and forth on a lot of the details but it was a long shot hire and the odds of success are only slimmer at this point. Bad coaching and lack of talent. Don't see signs of either improving in near future.

 

[Pilchard]

Bz was such a disaster that the confidence level of the WF fanbase is so low that patience and trust levels are exhausted. Really tried to limit expectations for this team and this season. With that said, the bottom line is that a 10-16 (1-13) record is really hard to stomach. No question that the roster is flawed, but the talent here is better than that (WF's record is on par with BC, St. John's and Rutgers at this point, and those programs literally have ZERO talent on hand right now). No question that Manning's job is and should be a 100% safe given that he really only has one recruiting class on this roster (and that class looks talented). Just hate that this team has not accomplished more to build at least some marginal momentum for the program moving forward. Instead, this season has just further underscored the irrelevance of the WF basketball program. All of this makes it harder for WF to recruit the HS class of 2017 and 2018. The hole got deeper this year, when it should've gone in the other direction.

 

[ChrisL68]

Bz was such a disaster that the confidence level of the WF fanbase is so low that patience and trust levels are exhausted. Really tried to limit expectations for this team and this season. With that said, the bottom line is that a 10-16 (1-13) record is really hard to stomach. No question that the roster is flawed, but the talent here is better than that (WF's record is on par with BC, St. John's and Rutgers at this point, and those literally have ZERO talent on hand right now). No question that Manning's job is and should be a 100% safe given that really only has one recruiting class on this roster (and that class looks talented). Just hate that this team has not accomplished more to build at least some marginal momentum for the program moving forward. Instead, this season has just further underscored the irrelevance of the WF basketball program. All of this makes it harder for WF to recruit the HS class of 2017 and 2018. The hole got deeper this year, when it should've gone in the other direction.

Yep. I don't think Manning should be fired, but I don't have much faith he is going to turn things around based on what I have seen so far.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Yep. I don't think Manning should be fired, but I don't have much faith he is going to turn things around based on what I have seen so far.

This is why I don't give a shit anymore. The conventional wisdom is that we can't fire a coach this early and I know there is no way that we will, but I think the chances of DM being successful here and turning the program around are almost negligible. I have better things to do than follow a program that is going through the motions waiting around to do the inevitable at the "right time."

 

[MichDeac25]

Bz was such a disaster that the confidence level of the WF fanbase is so low that patience and trust levels are exhausted. Really tried to limit expectations for this team and this season. With that said, the bottom line is that a 10-16 (1-13) record is really hard to stomach. No question that the roster is flawed, but the talent here is better than that (WF's record is on par with BC, St. John's and Rutgers at this point, and those programs literally have ZERO talent on hand right now). No question that Manning's job is and should be a 100% safe given that he really only has one recruiting class on this roster (and that class looks talented). Just hate that this team has not accomplished more to build at least some marginal momentum for the program moving forward. Instead, this season has just further underscored the irrelevance of the WF basketball program. All of this makes it harder for WF to recruit the HS class of 2017 and 2018. The hole got deeper this year, when it should've gone in the other direction.

We barely beat Rutgers. If our talent was that much better, we would have dominated them like other teams did.

 

[PhDeac]

Our talent is better. Our coaching isn't.