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Wake vs Nebraska (-12.5)

TexasDeac10 said:
How on earth did we only lose by 14 to UNC last year?
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Renfield said:
It's all true. Bz coaches differently on the road than at home. Wonder why?
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In my mind, these two questions have very similar answers.

Players simply don't play for this guy & most outliers in his team's performances can be explained by external motivating factors (home court or a big time opponent)... When the guys hustled last year, they really weren't as atrocious as the record would indicate... Hell, the team had the lead at the 2nd media time-out against Duke; but true to Bz form, when coaching became a factor... they fell off the face of the planet.

I guessed before this season started that the team would be surprisingly competitive until they lost their first game & then the wheels would come off because the players are, based on Bz's record, likely to question Bz's ability as much (if not more) than we do when adversity rolls in. Its hard for a team to buy into a coach whose constantly having to remind people that he coached Carmelo a decade ago to prove his worth.

With all that said... I'm rooting hard for them & would love for Bz to prove me wrong. The real travesty in all of this is the lack of enthusiasm/excitement around the program but there's nothing stopping us, as fans, from doing a much better job of filling more seats & loudly supporting the guys in the Joel this year (even before the W/L ship is righted).
 
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vtwhat etc said:
In my mind, these two questions have very similar answers.

Players simply don't play for this guy & most outliers in his team's performances can be explained by external motivating factors (home court or a big time opponent)... When the guys hustled last year, they really weren't as atrocious as the record would indicate... Hell, the team had the lead at the 2nd media time-out against Duke; but true to Bz form, when coaching became a factor... they fell off the face of the planet.

I guessed before this season started that the team would be surprisingly competitive until they lost their first game & then the wheels would come off because the players are, based on Bz's record, likely to question Bz's ability as much (if not more) than we do when adversity rolls in. Its hard for a team to buy into a coach whose constantly having to remind people that he coached Carmelo a decade ago to prove his worth.

With all that said... I'm rooting hard for them & would love for Bz to prove me wrong. The real travesty in all of this is the lack of enthusiasm/excitement around the program but there's nothing stopping us, as fans, from doing a much better job of filling more seats & loudly supporting the guys in the Joel this year (even before the W/L ship is righted).
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You really lost me at "players simply don't play for this guy." I didn't actually read the rest.

How do you know this? Multiple interviews with all the players? It's just a silly argument to make, because it involves several assumptions that can't be falsified. There's no evidence for this kind of stuff. So how do you know? Ultimately, I think it's just a nice story you can spin into a limited set of facts. On that same set of facts, I can spin the story that players are highly motivated to play but simply aren't talented enough/suffer from youth on the road. And who's to say I'm wrong?
 
TexasDeac10 said:
You really lost me at "players simply don't play for this guy." I didn't actually read the rest.

How do you know this? Multiple interviews with all the players? It's just a silly argument to make, because it involves several assumptions that can't be falsified. There's no evidence for this kind of stuff. So how do you know? Ultimately, I think it's just a nice story you can spin into a limited set of facts. On that same set of facts, I can spin the story that players are highly motivated to play but simply aren't talented enough/suffer from youth on the road. And who's to say I'm wrong?
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While I probably don't have the proof that you (rightfully) are asking for... I did sit on the bench for a game. To put it lightly, I would not categorize the players attitude towards Bz as attentive & this was fairly early on in the season.
 
vtwhat etc said:
While I probably don't have the proof that you (rightfully) are asking for... I did sit on the bench for a game. To put it lightly, I would not categorize the players attitude towards Bz as attentive & this was fairly early on in the season.
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Just curious, was that this season or last season? Obviously, I think there's a huge difference.
 
TexasDeac10 said:
Just curious, was that this season or last season? Obviously, I think there's a huge difference.
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Last season... and PosRep because that's a good point... I was just typing an ETA: most of what stuck in my mind was from the 'characters' so it could be entirely different this season & my 'evidence' wouldn't hold much weight.
 
vtwhat etc said:
In my mind, these two questions have very similar answers.

Players simply don't play for this guy & most outliers in his team's performances can be explained by external motivating factors (home court or a big time opponent)... When the guys hustled last year, they really weren't as atrocious as the record would indicate... Hell, the team had the lead at the 2nd media time-out against Duke; but true to Bz form, when coaching became a factor... they fell off the face of the planet.

I guessed before this season started that the team would be surprisingly competitive until they lost their first game & then the wheels would come off because the players are, based on Bz's record, likely to question Bz's ability as much (if not more) than we do when adversity rolls in. Its hard for a team to buy into a coach whose constantly having to remind people that he coached Carmelo a decade ago to prove his worth.

With all that said... I'm rooting hard for them & would love for Bz to prove me wrong. The real travesty in all of this is the lack of enthusiasm/excitement around the program but there's nothing stopping us, as fans, from doing a much better job of filling more seats & loudly supporting the guys in the Joel this year (even before the W/L ship is righted).
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Totally 100% disagree on this. First, the idea that players would simply give up and not play hard for a coach because they don't have confidence in his past is ridiculous. The guys on this team have way more pride than that. Second, I have a hard time seeing how six individuals (our class next year) would choose to come to Wake and play for a coach who they had no faith in. These guys are pretty much placing their confidence in this coach and themselves that they can get this thing turned around in the next four years. Otherwise... why risk your college career coming to play for a coach you had no faith in? All of these guys had offers elsewhere.

The pulse of the actual fanbase, not the crazies on here is this: skeptical of buzz until he proves something, horrified at last season, disappointed in the actions of some of our players, but ultimately hoping and believing that the ship is starting to turn around and head in the right direction.

Plus, Buzz is getting at least another two seasons to turn this around (as has been debated many times on this board)
 
GreenDeac said:
Totally 100% disagree on this. First, the idea that players would simply give up and not play hard for a coach because they don't have confidence in his past is ridiculous. The guys on this team have way more pride than that. Second, I have a hard time seeing how six individuals (our class next year) would choose to come to Wake and play for a coach who they had no faith in. These guys are pretty much placing their confidence in this coach and themselves that they can get this thing turned around in the next four years. Otherwise... why risk your college career coming to play for a coach you had no faith in? All of these guys had offers elsewhere.

The pulse of the actual fanbase, not the crazies on here is this: skeptical of buzz until he proves something, horrified at last season, disappointed in the actions of some of our players, but ultimately hoping and believing that the ship is starting to turn around and head in the right direction.

Plus, Buzz is getting at least another two seasons to turn this around (as has been debated many times on this board)
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I'm not going to argue with any of that...

I think you make a very valid (and well constructed) argument on that side of the table (guys who he brings in believing in him) & hope it proves true.
 
vtwhat etc said:
I'm not going to argue with any of that...

I think you make a very valid (and well constructed) argument on that side of the table (guys who he brings in believing in him) & hope it proves true.
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Thanks... should have added that I can completely understand using Buzz's road records as evidence that the hire wasn't the best choice. I think that's a fine argument as the records are horrendous and I certainly wasn't thrilled with the hire when it was made. At this point, we're stuck with Buzz and I am impressed with some of the improvements from last season (going from non-competitive to competitive in almost every game) and our recruiting.
 
I really do see both sides as well (as much as people will disagree with that statement), I just don't understand the personal attacks on Coach [Redacted] and Ron Wellman.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I really do see both sides as well (as much as people will disagree with that statement), I just don't understand the personal attacks on Coach [Redacted] and Ron Wellman.
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+1

Was the GM of the Nuggets Buzz's buddy too? The jury will be out until 2013, so you might as well support your team, coach and AD regardless if you agree with the hire or not.

By the way, is there any way to get an internet feed for the game?
 
DCDeac said:
We shoot 3's good - within 10 points

We no shoot 3's good - blowout

Rinse. Repeat.
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TwentyONE said:
This. We actually have a chance if we shoot the lights out. But that generally only keeps it close, its going to be very difficult to actually get a W on the road.
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Well, Chase shot the lights out and Carson canned 2 triples, but they carried the Deacs to only 33% from deep and still got the win.

LOL at the "the kids don't play for [Redacted]" posts. Maybe the dumbasses that are off the team now didn't play for him, but our current team sure is. And they're damn fun to watch when they trust the system.

They mentioned hockey-style assist about Wake's play tonight - where the pass that sets up the 2nd pass for the layup should get credit. If anything captures the difference between this year's team and last year's, it was that comment.
 
DCDeac said:
Well, Chase shot the lights out and Carson canned 2 triples, but they carried the Deacs to only 33% from deep and still got the win.

LOL at the "the kids don't play for [Redacted]" posts. Maybe the dumbasses that are off the team now didn't play for him, but our current team sure is. And they're damn fun to watch when they trust the system.

They mentioned hockey-style assist about Wake's play tonight - where the pass that sets up the 2nd pass for the layup should get credit. If anything captures the difference between this year's team and last year's, it was that comment.
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There might be 5 posts in a decade's worth of religiously reading WF message boards that openly 'LOL' at me that I condone; but this is certainly one of them.

I said it after the Ferrum game (not that it matters)... but damn, this is a fun team to pull for.

I just hope Chase doesn't start saluting his made shots...
 
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