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Wake/VT

bobknightfan said:
No he didn't. DCDeac (Pilchard, really) is basically saying that WF got a tougher draw because VT happened to play a better game against us than ND did the year before....but that is after the fact, and had nothing to do with the draw. It should be obvious by comparing what the two teams (ND '13 & VT '14) had done prior to that last game against us that ND was the tougher draw. The fact that VT played a better game against a Manning-coached team than ND did against a Bz-coached team doesn't mean VT was a tougher draw...and is an integral part of the coaching comparison here.....but DCDeac & Pilchard are completely omitting that from consideration because their entire single-minded goal...and that of just about every other poster here...was and is to paint the situation in a way that would make Manning look as good as possible and Bz look as bad as possible.
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I generally agree with this. Make no mistake, I am not at all a supporter of [Redacted]. I wanted him gone pretty early on and he did a lot to set our program back. I also think that Manning has the program on the right track, and that we are on our way to being good again.

That said, I don't agree with the sentiment that many have that Manning basically gets a pass this year. A lot of people say we are getting rid of the "stench" of [Redacted]. All circumstances are obviously different, but there are tons of one year turnarounds where the incoming coach didn't have to "get rid of the stench". Tony Bennett coming into Washington State, Matt Doherty / Mike Brey at Notre Dame, Larry Brown at Kansas, Bob Huggins at Cincinnati, Rick Barnes (to some extent) at Texas, Bob Huggins / Frank Martin at Kansas State. The list goes on. Those coaches were able to immediately come into programs that were hurting and turn them around in one year. Was Wake in a worse spot than those places? Sure thing. But some are finding very little fault with Manning this year despite his obvious flaws/mistakes during games (substitution patterns / lineups, poor time out management, inability to break the press early in the year, etc).
 
This team barely had any ACC talent.
 
BK - I really wasn't making that point to paint anyone in any light. I actually don't think Manning worked a whole lot of magic as far as being a bench coach goes this year. At the same time, you can't really compare [Redacted]'s 4th year with Manning's first as far as pure coaching capabilities are concerned. Just as I've never viewed the Stetson debacle as a referendum on [Redacted]'s coaching - he'd had the team for a matter of weeks at that point - I don't think in year 1 you get to do as much coaching as you'd like. You're installing basic systems, you have no upperclassmen already familiar with how you do things to help, you're spending a lot of time recruiting and replacing transfers...

Either way it's really splitting hairs. 5 wins this year, 6 wins last year. Is it better to beat a couple top teams but get swept by terrible ones? If you adjust for talent can you even argue the bench coaching was much different? None of it was good.
 
I saw a Vt team prepared to exploit our weaknesses. It's not rocket surgery to see that we are extremely bad on defensive rotations. Our collective lateral quickness is found wanting. VT's ball movement was as quick, crisp, and precise as in any game I have watched this year (and that's a lot). We failed to close on shooters (again); allowed a free lane to the basket (again); VT had 16 points off turns.

Lack of talent, lack of effort at critical junctures, combined with some seemingly low player-basketball IQ made this a tough one to make a W.
 
Virginia Tech is terrible. Seven straight losses going in and 10 wins all season. Just look at their players - not ACC level especially that goofy looking center.

No excuse to lose to them.
 
SkyDivingDeacon said:
I made the mistake of re-watching the game and not to pile on the guy, but....Rountree has no business being on the court. He's a terrible on-ball defender and even worse in a zone. Hard to think he's more of a liability on offense than defense, but watching the game again and after other performances earlier in the year I'd have to say that's the case.

Wouldn't shed a tear if Rountree, Rondale and Washington were all gone next year. Hate saying that because they're Deacs but just don't belong on an ACC team that's trying to repair itself...
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Rountree's defensive prowess has been overrated by a few people for a long while. He has the body to fit the Jamaal Levy role but just doesn't do it. Great guy, but can't cover perimeter players and isn't big enough or long enough to handle the post. Outside of the freshmen, CMM, Devin, and maybe McClinton, it's just not a winning ACC roster.
 
HowardDeanSux said:
Talent=recruiting, *effort=recruiting and coaching, **low IQ=coaching? Is that how others see it?
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I'm pretty certain it's not this simplistic.

Talent is recognized/verified during the evaluation process concomitant to recruiting. Level of competition is a critical variable here.

*Whose effort? Coaches? Players as they relate to and and participate in the process?

**Low IQ would seem an inherent sort of thing...basketball or otherwise. Can IQ be 'raised' through practice, repetition, and guidance? Perhaps. Experience can be a wonderful teacher if it is allowed to be...if it is perceived positively to be an opportunity for consistent, continual development. So much of success for a team rests on the attitudes and perception of the individuals which make up that team. Coaching won't necessarily 'fix' any inherent issues. I think we've seen than borne out to some degree this year.
 
Rondale can at least shoot but he can't shoot from the bench and was given no playing time after Christmas.Roundtree on the court with CMM and Jones is nauseating .
 
I love Aaron because he's a Deac, but I am absolutely baffled whenever I see a post with even the mildest praise for his defense.
 
bobknightfan said:
No he didn't. DCDeac (Pilchard, really) is basically saying that WF got a tougher draw because VT happened to play a better game against us than ND did the year before....but that is after the fact, and had nothing to do with the draw. It should be obvious by comparing what the two teams (ND '13 & VT '14) had done prior to that last game against us that ND was the tougher draw. The fact that VT played a better game against a Manning-coached team than ND did against a Bz-coached team doesn't mean VT was a tougher draw...and is an integral part of the coaching comparison here.....but DCDeac & Pilchard are completely omitting that from consideration because their entire single-minded goal...and that of just about every other poster here...was and is to paint the situation in a way that would make Manning look as good as possible and Bz look as bad as possible.

There is no doubt that Manning is and will be a much, much better recruiter than Bz....and since talent is probably the most important (though not only) factor in power conference college basketball today, that gives Manning a big advantage over Bz in achieving success here. However, I personally feel that once you get to bench coaching....achieving results with the players you have on the floor....Bz is still a better bench coach than Manning. And that doesn't say so much for Bz as it does for Manning, because comparing someone's bench coaching to Manning is setting the bar pretty low. So you have two different factors here: recruiting & coaching. That was true for Prosser & Gaudio as well....both of whom were very good to great recruiters, but only mediocre to poor bench coaches.

What WF...or any other school in the power conferences....needs to really become competitive on a regular basis and achieve any degree of success in the post-season is a coach who is very good at both recruiting and coaching. And WF didn't have such as person in Prosser, Gaudio or Bz...and they don't have it in Manning. Recruiting may get you to the post-season, but you cannot win there without bench coaching.....and WF's record in post-season under Prosser & Gaudio is the proof of that. More specifically, you cannot advance very far in post-season play without having a coach who could teach (and motivate his team to play) defense....which has been WF's biggest problem during all of this time.
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It's too early too judge Manning on bench coaching but I hope he will use multiple defenses in the future . Roy and K had great success with zones yesterday. The zone press of Duke is new this year and worked well against WFU and NCSU. Roy used the 1-3-1 trap twice with good results as well. The basic man to man used by Manning every possession didnt impress me much .
 
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