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Wake/VT

diverdeac said:
We simply did not deserve to win. Our defense is absolutely pathetic. Rountree continues to gamble and lose on D. The play of the game was Rountree dribbiling the ball of his foot. Plus guys moving on wide open 3s, not going straight up especially Leonard. Madison coming in in the 1st half with a lead and immediately turning it over twice. We dont play defense and we do Not value possessions. Bad shots.

This is obviously a transition year but DM has got to pick it up. We are much better than Va Tech. It shows so little defensive intensity and outright competitive will to have a fresh go for 30 on you in the biggest game of the year. Pathetic really is.
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Good observations. I am inclined to think that poor defense is a lack of effort. I still think that, but I am forced to wonder if some of our players possess the athletic ability to play defense on this level.
 
We will be better next year. Much better. I think CMM will be much improved as will Dinos. I hope DT matures a good bit before next year. The fresh will help a lot. Can't question the effort of DT or CMM today-- or anyone for that matter. I believe DM can coach. I also believe he can recruit. I also think he works his tail off. That will build (or rebuild, as it were) a program.
 
Somebody may have already commented on this, but check the replay of our bench on the last 3-shot sequence: everybody standing, gyrating, pleading, etc. for the ball to go in except Chill; never budged from his seat. In fact, I think another coach was standing in front of him so he may have missed the whole thing.
 
silk said:
It my fault. I watched the game and jinxed it. No wins if Silk watches this year.
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At halftime I feared we were going to end up losing by 15-20 the way their zone was giving us fits. Fortunately we did much better the 2nd half though some of the entry passes to Devin were still poor. Codi and Devin both shot free throws well 11-13 and we needed everyone of them. Defenisvely it was terrible watching VT get to the basket at will.

Overall a bad season but I feel like Danny will get things turned around here.
 
bobknightfan said:
Yeah, after getting down 10 points at the half, we hung in there against that 2-16 team.
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I think the point ProbationDeac was trying to make was that it was nice to see the team fight back and not fold. Typically, the team would have just given up and lost by double digits no matter the level of competition.
 
ProbationDeac said:
At halftime I feared we were going to end up losing by 15-20 the way their zone was giving us fits. Fortunately we did much better the 2nd half though some of the entry passes to Devin were still poor. Codi and Devin both shot free throws well 11-13 and we needed everyone of them. Defenisvely it was terrible watching VT get to the basket at will.

Overall a bad season but I feel like Danny will get things turned around here.
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bobknightfan said:
Well, when the expectation is that the team is going to fold against 2-16 teams, what does that say about everyone involved....players and coaches?

We're giving brownie points now for not giving up against a team that is 2-16 on the year and in dead-last place in the conference?
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See bolded above. He said overall it was a bad season and he is correct. I don't think anyone can say this season wasn't bad and yesterday's loss wasn't bad, but yesterday's loss could have been even worse.
 
A 2-16 team that took Duke to OT.

VaTech is horribly inconsistent but they have a lot of young talent. We're the same way - one game Dinos goes for 25+ and Hudson starts hitting 3's and everyone thinks we're legit. The next couple games they go ice cold and we lose by 40 and nobody can figure out how we almost beat UVA on the road.

I mean, we call Codi a bad free throw shooter, yet Jalen Hudson shoots the same percentage. Of course he went 10/10 yesterday. Their team combined to miss 1 free throw all game.

There was some really solid basketball played by both sides in that game, especially in the 2nd half. Sometimes bad teams play well. I think Buzz got lucky that Pierce was in foul trouble. I think we executed surprisingly well against the zone. We botched an open dunk and had a lane violation on a made free throw in a game we lost by one. Par for the course this year.
 
bobknightfan said:
Well, when the expectation is that the team is going to fold against 2-16 teams, what does that say about everyone involved....players and coaches?

We're giving brownie points now for not giving up against a team that is 2-16 on the year and in dead-last place in the conference?
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over the previous 4 years you know the team will be giving up. the entire point is not to give brownie points it's to say that that is ONE change this year. the majority of the games have been hard fought (by not so great talent) even if they lose. that is a big change from the last regime. maybe they will make the turn from "moral victories" and "hard fought losses" to wins. that remains an unanswered question. just nice to see blowouts as the exception rather than the rule. we'll see if that's a step to greater, at least better, things in the next year or so.
 
DCDeac said:
A 2-16 team that took Duke to OT.
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There's a lot of parity in college basketball. This actually happens more than you'd think. Below is a list of major conference teams over the past five seasons that finished the conference season with 3 wins or less than either beat or lost in overtime to a team that finished in the KenPom top 10-

2015 - Rutgers (2-16) beats Wisconsin (KP #4)
2015 - Texas Tech (3-15) loses to Oklahoma in overtime (KP #10)
2015 - Virginia Tech (2-16) loses to Duke in overtime (KP #7)
2013 - Penn State (2-16) beats Michigan (KP #4)
2013 - TCU (2-16) beats Kansas (KP #8)
2011 - South Florida (3-15) loses to Connecticut in overtime (KP #9)

The main reason there aren't more teams on the above list is because it's pretty rare for a team to finish with 3 or fewer conference wins. A lot of years there were only a small handful.

Is beating or taking a Top-10 team into overtime impressive? Of course. But it's not like it's some incredibly rare situation that makes a loss later in the season excusable.
 
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No, it just means they're capable of playing well.

Not to mention you just listed games from 2013 and 2011 - doesn't exactly support the idea that it's all that common.

I thought they played well against us. We certainly didn't defend like we needed to, but the narrative that we were completely horrid on defense or that we suck for losing that game is pretty off base in my opinion. They played way over their heads, we played well and had a lead with a few seconds left plus a tip to win it but it didn't pan out. It wasn't some embarrassing debacle. We only beat them by 3 at home. They almost beat Syracuse twice and UVA once.

We struggle to stay in front of people and don't have a rim protector. We're clearly a flawed team. I'm just saying that wasn't a shit-the-bed performance like many of our other ACC tourney blowouts have been. Nor did we get lucky and pull a team like we did with Notre Dame last year who played like garbage.
 
Notre Dame had quit by the end of last year. They lost their best player Jerian Grant due to academic suspension at mid-season. After beating Duke to open the ACC season, ND collapsed and lost to WF twice (think about that) and lost a VT team coached by James Johnson that was far less competitive than VT this year. Last year, ND lost 5 of their 6 to close the season and was ready to move on. VT plays hard for Buzz. Agree that it's like arguing who is the tallest midget, but VT is a marginally tougher opponent this year than ND was at the end of last year.
 
I made the mistake of re-watching the game and not to pile on the guy, but....Rountree has no business being on the court. He's a terrible on-ball defender and even worse in a zone. Hard to think he's more of a liability on offense than defense, but watching the game again and after other performances earlier in the year I'd have to say that's the case.

Wouldn't shed a tear if Rountree, Rondale and Washington were all gone next year. Hate saying that because they're Deacs but just don't belong on an ACC team that's trying to repair itself...
 
bobknightfan said:
It's funny how scenarios can be slanted to fit the desired conclusion. Do you honestly believe that this year's Virginia Tech team is better than last year's Notre Dame team?
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No idea, didn't watch much of either team throughout the year. Doubt many did.

But I watched every second of both ACC tournament games, and VaTech played a much, much better game than Notre Dame did last year. That's really all that matters. I was sickened last year that [Redacted] got an "ACC tournament win" because our one year rental was left open all game and shot 90% from the field. The blowout to Pitt was never really in question, whereas I think we would have given Miami a good game.

It's not slanting to watch two games and compare them.
 
DCDeac said:
No, it just means they're capable of playing well.

Not to mention you just listed games from 2013 and 2011 - doesn't exactly support the idea that it's all that common.
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I don't think you read much of my post.

I listed games over the past five years. As I mentioned in my post. That's why 2011 and 2013 are there.

I also mentioned that it's not that common because it's not common for power conference teams to finish with 3 or fewer conference wins. Over the past five years, there have been only 30 teams that have finished in that group. Six of them beat or took to overtime a top 10 team. 20%. Drawing a very clear line to the parity that I mentioned in my post.

I also think it's a stretch to say definitively that VaTech was a tougher opponent than Notre Dame last year. The last game of the year ND lost by 2 in the Dean Dome against a UNC team that was on a 11 game winning streak. They clearly were a different team after Grant, but it's incredibly subjective to say that VaTech was a tougher draw.
 
Not sure if it's intentional or not, but you're completely missing my point. First, you can't say something "happens more than you think" then list only 5 examples in all of college basketball in 5 years. Doesn't matter what qualifiers you add to it. That's actually fewer than I'd expect despite how uncommon 3 or fewer wins is.

And it also doesn't take into account the Syracuse and UVA games, nor does it do anything to refute the point which is that VaTech played well yesterday. Today they predictably can't hit even wide open 3's, going 1/7 so far against a Miami team desperate for a win - and they're still within 6 at half.

Again, I can't really take an argument seriously that suggests the Notre Dame game last year was similar to the VaTech game yesterday. I never said VaTech was a tougher draw than Notre Dame heading into the game. It's a simple idea really. When you play a bad team that shoots over 90% from the line and over 40% from deep that's a tougher game than a bad team that shoots 30% from deep and doesn't care enough to defend your only shooter. Notre Dame looked asleep during that game. The announcers said during the game that outside of Coron it looked like nobody even wanted to be playing. Nothing like that was said yesterday.
 
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