WFU Falls to 92nd in Directors' Cup Standings

[PhDeac]

Actually, this guy did some research to show exactly the opposite.

Our glory years for the Director's Cup were the 7 years from '01-'02 through '06-'07. During those years our average finish was 36th, we peaked at 23 in '06-'07 and never finished lower than 44th.

During those years, FH dominated, with 3 national champs, a runner-up and 2 other final 4s. That team accounted for 16.5% of our points by itself. The M and W golf teams were consistently strong, scoring every year and, together, accounting for almost 23% of our points. The M and W soccer teams were also very strong, scoring every year (except men in '01-'02) and throwing in a final 4 and a couple of elite 8s for the men. Together they accounted for over 16% of our points. Finally, the M&W tennis teams were also very consistent, scoring every year except the women missed one - and accounting for right at 16%.

So, FH, golf, soccer and tennis accounted for like 71% of our scoring.

W cc and M basketball both also did well during this period and the T&F and baseball teams were contributing occasional points.

 

[thedeacfan]

BTW, for those of you that want to get fired up about the fact that we are currently in 111th place in the standings as of Apr. 25 and who think my position that it is very difficult for us to consistently place high in these rankings is LOWF... I just went and looked at the current results - what they call the winter season includes 15 sports for which you can earn points. Of those 15, we field teams in 4. That's right, 4 out of 15 (M/W basketball and M/W T&F) - and we scored zero points...

The fall season includes 8 sports and we actually field teams in 7 of them. The problem is that only M/W soccer scored any points for us and they both got points for 17th place (so I guess that means they made the field of 32 and lost). M/W CC failed to score - and they used to get us points all the time, field hockey didn't score and they used to dominate, fb didn't score and vollyball didn't score (they never have). We don't field a water polo team.

As I have pointed out all along, all of our teams have to perform in order for us to do any good - and they are not right now.

I think we are agreeing in many ways. The Director's Cup point system rewards success not participation. I don't know that "all of our teams have to perform for us to do any good." But we do need to be striving for success across the board. Only 20 sports can be scored in the Director's Cup competition. The most sports that any ACC team participates in is 25. We participate in 18 sports. Two ACC teams only participate in 17 and they are doing better than us. Two participate in 19. Florida State is one that participates in 19 (only one more than us) and they are consistently in the top 10 nationally in the Director's Cup standings.

Our problem is a leadership problem. Our leadership does not expect or demand athletic excellence. They are content to make excuses and say that Wake has special issues/challenges that cannot be overcome. That is an LOWF attitude and should NOT be acceptable.

 

[PhDeac]

"If you ain't pissed off for greatness, that means you're OK with being mediocre."

Heard this today (below) and our athletics could use this type of inspiration. Wake Forest sports has been OK with mediocre for a long time. Success is considered "luck" and being pissed off for greatness and being pissed off at the people who aren't working toward greatness is considered being a "bad fan". We need to overhaul Wake athletics. Get rid of the athletic department like Vandy did. This set up isn't working. What's the point if we're not trying to win.

Found this quote from a 2008 article looking back at Vandy's 2003 decision to disband the athletic department.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2008-09-08-vanderbilt-athletics_N.htm

But Vanderbilt says the real success is an athletics program that is no longer viewed as an appendage, a side business for entertaining students and donors. And Gee's vision — that if the whole university is responsible for the athletic program, everyone invests more to make sure it succeeds — shows signs of taking hold.
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[Stormfury]

Dead last in the ACC, far below GT and in the bottom 5 of BCS schools. We've got a very real problem. This is very damning for Wellman moreso even than Bz.

+1! Rustle up the pitchforks! Wellman OUT!

 

[Bluegrass Deac]

I suggested the Vandy thing a couple of weeks ago. They have improved in almost every sport, if not all of them, since they made that decision.

 

[PhDeac]

Yeah, the more I learn about what they did, the more I like it. That quote drives home the big problem with athletic departments. They shouldn't be "side businesses".

 

[scooter84]

I think we are agreeing in many ways. The Director's Cup point system rewards success not participation. I don't know that "all of our teams have to perform for us to do any good." But we do need to be striving for success across the board. Only 20 sports can be scored in the Director's Cup competition. The most sports that any ACC team participates in is 25. We participate in 18 sports. Two ACC teams only participate in 17 and they are doing better than us. Two participate in 19. Florida State is one that participates in 19 (only one more than us) and they are consistently in the top 10 nationally in the Director's Cup standings.

Our problem is a leadership problem. Our leadership does not expect or demand athletic excellence. They are content to make excuses and say that Wake has special issues/challenges that cannot be overcome. That is an LOWF attitude and should NOT be acceptable.

I think we are agreeing in a lot of ways... But, your FSU example kind of proves my point. You say they only compete in 19 sports - I will take your word for it. I did a sampling of their finishes - I picked 4 years.

'06-'07 - they finished 15th. They scored Director's Cup points in 17 different sports. Three of those sports we do not have. I quickly saw that FSU benefits greatly from having dominant T&F programs. T&F effectively provides 4 opportunities to score points, since there are spring and fall seasons for both men and women. Their men's team won a natty that year in one season and came in second in the other season. Women's soccer came in 3rd. I would say that 17/19 is pretty much all of their teams performing well.

'07-'08 - they finished 15th. They scored points in 17 sports again. They got another natty and another 2nd in T&F, came in 3rd in W CC and came in 2nd in W soccer.

'08-'09 - another 15th place finish - another year of scoring points in 17 sports. They got a 2nd, a 3rd and an 8th in T&F, a 3rd in W cc, and a 5th in W soccer.

'10-'11 - they moved up to 9th - scoring in 18 different sports this time. They got a 2nd in M T&F and 2nd in both M and W cc.

FSU's formula for Directors Cup success is the same as ours was in our glory years - ride dominance in a couple of sports and consistent performance in most of your others. We had FH dominance and high finishes in golf, along with consistent contributions from tennis, CC and others. They have dominance in T&F and CC combined with points from almost every sport.

I have never said we should not expect to succeed - just that we have to score in all of our programs in order to do well in the Director's Cup - and that is tough to do consistently. FSU has been doing a really good job - but they couldn't be more different from Wake Forest as a type of school.

When I said we were lucky in our best years, I meant fortunate - as in we were fortunate that our great programs performed up to expectations and that we got contributions from lots of others - not lucky as in succeeding without skill.

 

[scooter84]

BTW, all this looking at results reminds me that distance running is a great way to score lots of points - and we used to succeed in that area. If you have good M/W CC teams, they can both score points. Then, can't those same athletes score points in both the indoor and outdoor track seasons? I think this is something we used to be good at - are those programs getting better or worse? I don't know.

 

[CheesePritchard]

Worse. Wellman told the team he didn't give a crap how they performed, just that they stayed out of trouble. That was like my sophomore or junior year in 2004 or 2005. I think the men's team tried to mutiny on the coach but can't remember well enough to be sure.

 

[scooter84]

Worse. Wellman told the team he didn't give a crap how they performed, just that they stayed out of trouble. That was like my sophomore or junior year in 2004 or 2005. I think the men's team tried to mutiny on the coach but can't remember well enough to be sure.

Are you talking about the CC team? Is the same coach still here? I assume the coaches have changed since the years when we were successful?

 

[Brangus]

Wellman will have to clean house if the '13-'14 seasons don't show improvement in the Big 3 sports. Grobe is safe but Lobo and [Redacted] would be out and Walther either out or on the extreme hot seat.