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WI, AR, PA voter ID laws ruled unconstitutional

RJKarl said:
There is no way not to disenfranchise 1000s of times people than you prevent from committing a crime that doesn't exist.

We could solve this non-existent problem by having a very simple system of having either a fingerprint when sign in or very inexpensive computer camera at each polling place. Make the penalty for voter impersonation 10 years without the possibility of parole and $1,000,000 fine.
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I like this idea, but that still doesn't prove that the person voting is who they say they are. It certainly is a better solution than nothing, but ID is better because they have to produce verification that they are who they say they are (SSN, etc..) to get the photo ID, and then have to produce that same photo ID that has already been verified to vote.

Your solution is decent, voter ID is better.
 
Let's just have everyone get their SSN tattooed on their arm. Then you just show the poll worker your tattoo and viola- you can vote.

I can't imagine anyone will have a problem with that, would they?
 
DeaconSig said:
Let's just have everyone get their SSN tattooed on their arm. Then you just show the poll worker your tattoo and viola- you can vote.

I can't imagine anyone will have a problem with that, would they?
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RJ might.
 
Wrangor said:
I like this idea, but that still doesn't prove that the person voting is who they say they are. It certainly is a better solution than nothing, but ID is better because they have to produce verification that they are who they say they are (SSN, etc..) to get the photo ID, and then have to produce that same photo ID that has already been verified to vote.

Your solution is decent, voter ID is better.
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As easy as it is to get fake ID over the internet or in cities, ID is not really a solution.

If you have to give a fingerprint, are videotaped and time stamped,why would anyone risk ten years in prison and a $1,000,000 fine to vote as someone else?

This is a simple, cost-effective solution that doesn't disenfranchise anyone.
 
DeaconSig said:
Let's just have everyone get their SSN tattooed on their arm. Then you just show the poll worker your tattoo and viola- you can vote.

I can't imagine anyone will have a problem with that, would they?
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If you have tattoos (other than from the Holocaust), you can't be buried in a Jewish cemetery.

Plus I'm a wuss when it comes to needles.
 
fuck it, I hope every state requires it and then black folks band together and drive each other to the ID card place and rent buses and have ID card parties and decide to do the same on voting day and the thing backfires on the rednecks. that'd be awesome.
 
WakeandBake said:
fuck it, I hope every state requires it and then black folks band together and drive each other to the ID card place and rent buses and have ID card parties and decide to do the same on voting day and the thing backfires on the rednecks. that'd be awesome.
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I know in some ways you are kidding (maybe not), but this is not at all an unlikely scenario. Necessity is the mother of invention.
 
Wrangor said:
I know in some ways you are kidding (maybe not), but this is not at all an unlikely scenario. Necessity is the mother of invention.
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Not kidding at all. I am against voter ID because it is poppycock. So if it takes, I hope the results are the exact opposite of the intended ones.
 
94Deac said:
"Never happened." Mighty absolute. So let me ask you this: do we wait for it to happen? Virtually every other transaction in typical American life is driven by some form of identification verification. Reaction > proaction? It's similar to the death penalty. Some vehemently maintain that we've never executed an innocent person. How do you know? At what point is the system set up to verify that? If someone is voting in the name of a person long since dead, how do we discover that? Why not move towards a system that protects the integrity of the voting process BEFORE- to play devil's advocate- it happens.

Surely you're not contending that elections are so irrelevant and unimportant that a political machine or candidate wouldn't consider doing something like that.
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How organized and pervasive would an operation have to be to change the outcome of most elections?
 
WakeandBake said:
Not kidding at all. I am against voter ID because it is poppycock. So if it takes, I hope the results are the exact opposite of the intended ones.
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Exact opposite? Believe it or not there are a lot of people that support voter id who don't intend it as a racist ploy. I know that is probably difficult for you to imagine but there is actually a legitimate counter argument to your opinion.
 
Wrangor said:
Exact opposite? Believe it or not there are a lot of people that support voter id who don't intend it as a racist ploy. I know that is probably difficult for you to imagine but there is actually a legitimate counter argument to your opinion.
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The fact that it's such a decidedly partisan issue does not bode well for the purity of the intent of those proposing and passing said laws. The fact that a handful of idiots basically said it was about suppressing votes does even less for that confidence.

Vad nailed this IMO. I think the idea of voter ID laws would be almost universally supported if the approach had a long term focus on providing access to IDs for everyone beyond just having a DMV in the county. Rather than the response to those concerns being, "we don't want to disenfranchise voters, here are some ways we can overcome that"; the response is closer to "what kind of fucking idiot can't get an ID?!?" The latter response leads me to believe this is less about the integrity of elections, and more about altering outcomes.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
The fact that it's such a decidedly partisan issue does not bode well for the purity of the intent of those proposing and passing said laws. The fact that a handful of idiots basically said it was about suppressing votes does even less for that confidence.

Vad nailed this IMO. I think the idea of voter ID laws would be almost universally supported if the approach had a long term focus on providing access to IDs for everyone beyond just having a DMV in the county. Rather than the response to those concerns being, "we don't want to disenfranchise voters, here are some ways we can overcome that"; the response is closer to "what kind of fucking idiot can't get an ID?!?" The latter response leads me to believe this is less about the integrity of elections, and more about altering outcomes.
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Let me know when the democrats enter this discussion. They have no interest because it is more politically expedient to cry racist and try to stir up emotion against republicans.

You are right there is a common sense solution but only one side even admits a solution is necessary. This thread is evidence of that. Since the democrats won't discuss the issue both sides use it as a battering ram to rile up the extremes of their base.

Like I said earlier. This is not a difficult issue. If democrats thought they had anything to gain politically we would have already moved on. Republicans would most certainly negotiate to have some sort of common solution on the table.
 
Wrangor said:
Let me know when the democrats enter this discussion. They have no interest because it is more politically expedient to cry racist and try to stir up emotion against republicans.

You are right there is a common sense solution but only one side even admits a solution is necessary. This thread is evidence of that. Since the democrats won't discuss the issue both sides use it as a battering ram to rile up the extremes of their base.

Like I said earlier. This is not a difficult issue. If democrats thought they had anything to gain politically we would have already moved on. Republicans would most certainly negotiate to have some sort of common solution on the table.
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I would love to see evidence of your last point, because the current iteration of the GOP aren't exactly a bunch of Henry Clays. The expediency of a solution seems to be at odds with the complete disregard for absentee voter fraud, which as I understand, seems to be a much larger problem.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
I would love to see evidence of your last point, because the current iteration of the GOP aren't exactly a bunch of Henry Clays. The expediency of a solution seems to be at odds with the complete disregard for absentee voter fraud, which as I understand, seems to be a much larger problem.
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In order to have evidence Dems must enter the fray and be willing to play ball. Thus far none have so the only legislation passed is when pubs have overt majorities.

How can you have evidence of negotiating when one of the parties is completely unwilling to sit down at the table?

Step 1 must happen before step 2.
 
wait, is Wrangor actually arguing that the Republicans in 2014 are ready and willing to sit down and negotiate and compromise? Dude, have you paid attention at ALL since 2008?
 
BeachBumDeac said:
wait, is Wrangor actually arguing that the Republicans in 2014 are ready and willing to sit down and negotiate and compromise? Dude, have you paid attention at ALL since 2008?
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In split states if Dems traded voter id requirement for access to Ids them pubs would jump all over it everytime. I have no doubt about that.

We all know it won't happen though because it is more politically advantageous to paint pubs as racists instead of addressing the issue.
 
Wrangor said:
In split states if Dems traded voter id requirement for access to Ids them pubs would jump all over it everytime. I have no doubt about that.

We all know it won't happen though because it is more politically advantageous to paint pubs as racists instead of addressing the issue.
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Pubs don't want minorities and poor people to vote. That's the whole point.
 
Almost all proven voter fraud is absentee ballot fraud or crooked election officials.

I'd take the GOP's desire to assure the "purity" of our elections a little more seriously if they were talking about tightening up the absentee ballot rules. But the GOP is not at all worried about solving the actual proven voter fraud problem. By some strange coincidence, a lot of old white people and military use absentee ballots.
 
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