Will all the Bz Outers support Wake once his is gone, or.....

[bigdoublezero]

There are still people out there who blame Chris Paul for leaving us high and dry or whatever?

 

[PhDeac]

Wellman may not be a "total moron" but hiring [Redacted] under whatever premise, letting him coach for four seasons, and thinking it wouldn't damage the brand of the broader university was a totally moronic move by the Wake Forest brass.

 

[deacz]

You'd think people wouldn't give a damn if they were fed up enough since they're the ones giving the money to the athletic department, not the other way around. But high society at Wake has gotten so cliquey that no one wants to piss off head cheerleader Wellman.

Braces Syndrome.

Wellman needs to go ASAP. An AD should not have that much power, especially one who has made the worst hire in the school's history and has continued to justify it.

 

[Kent]

To get to that place you have to believe Wellman doesn't have a high bar for Wake. You have to believe there is no such thing as a Cinderella period for a coach. You have to believe that Wellman is expected to back on his word to the new coach from whatever was said at the hire. You have to believe whatever problems plagued the new coach at the previous job had no chance of changing. You have to believe Wellman wasn't just throwing out AD-speak the past 3 years. You have to believe Wellman was going to evaluate the new coach's performance at Wake based on his performance at the previous job. You don't get evaluated like do you? You also have to believe the program is now in ruins.

****

He'll be gone at the end of this season. Wellman isn't a total moron...like you probably think.

I get your point, but...

1. [Y]ou have to believe Wellman doesn't have a high bar for Wake. I don't believe Wellman has a high enough bar for WFU basketball. Unlike many sports, we could win an NC. We should be top 20 most years. The last 3 years should never happen. And if they did, we should not have our intelligence insulted by the ridiculous bullshit Wellman spins about "historically competitive." If you want to understand the height of Wellman's bar, just think about all the implications of "historically competitive" for a while.

2. You have to believe there is no such thing as a Cinderella period for a coach. Sure I do. But the Cinderella period is partially conditioned on evidence of competence and the ability to make people understand and buy into the plan. Neither Wellman nor Buzz has come close to doing that. Wellman should have known that the Buzz hire would be widely questioned and either not do it (best) or at least have a logical and honest story about it.

3. You have to believe that Wellman is expected to back on his word to the new coach from whatever was said at the hire. If he said something at the hire (which was something Buzz probably never imagined would happen) that meant the last 3 years would be OK, that was a huge and unnecessary promise. I've made bad hires. I get that it can happen. But Wake doesn't owe Buzz any moral duty to try to spin him as something he's not or sacrifice results just so he won't have to face facts. I don't know what the general consensus would have been as far as the criteria for success when Buzz was hired, but I have a hard time believing he has met it.

4. You have to believe whatever problems plagued the new coach at the previous job had no chance of changing. In Buzz's case, yes, I believe this. I don't think Buzz was going to turn into John Wooden just because some watery tart threw a $M at him. In sum, Buzz should have never been hired. Everyone but Wellman (and maybe Buzz) knew that immediately. And even then no one expected it to be this bad.

5. You have to believe Wellman wasn't just throwing out AD-speak the past 3 years. I think Wellman is as bad at media and PR as one can be. He could have said different things, and still kept Buzz around. Rather, he tried to tell us the sky is green just so he wouldn't have to face the reality of this fiasco and, I guess, so Buzz wouldn't get his feelings hurt.

6. You have to believe Wellman was going to evaluate the new coach's performance at Wake based on his performance at the previous job. You don't get evaluated like do you? In my business- like most- no one with Buzz's performance history would get an interview for the very top positions, much less hired. So, no, I'm not evaluated by how I did at my last job, but I wouldn't have many opportunities if my "record" looked like Buzz's.

7. You also have to believe the program is now in ruins. I don't have enough insider information to know if it's all the way there, but it's in the vicinity. What I do know is that I (and seemingly quite a few others) have lost confidence in Wellman and interest in WFU basketball. I'm not going to invest my energy and time in something if it's not fun to watch and best-case is we one day sneak into the NCAA.

Wellman isn't a total moron...like you probably think. I don't think he's a total moron. But I give him a solid F in media and PR.

 

[RChildress107]

To get to that place you have to believe Wellman doesn't have a high bar for Wake. You have to believe there is no such thing as a Cinderella period for a coach. You have to believe that Wellman is expected to back on his word to the new coach from whatever was said at the hire. You have to believe whatever problems plagued the new coach at the previous job had no chance of changing. You have to believe Wellman wasn't just throwing out AD-speak the past 3 years. You have to believe Wellman was going to evaluate the new coach's performance at Wake based on his performance at the previous job. You don't get evaluated like do you? You also have to believe the program is now in ruins.

You must believe most all of that and it was your choice, they didn't make you.

When you step back and see what happened, it's all obvious. Wellman hired a guy he thought would be a bball version of Grobe and our version of Stevens. Bad choice, but that was obviously the strategy. Once hired, the path was going to happen regardless of what happened. He empowered the new coach to clean up whatever was wrong (perceived or real, it doesn't matter), and was going to give the new coach a fair chance with his kids and system. He was going to support the coach during the Cinderella period and then have high expectations once it was over. He gave the new coach one extra Cinderella year because of the situation.

That's how I chose to view it. I did not like the previous fire. I questioned the hire as one that did not fit with the existing program, and really did not like the hire once I looked closely at the record after Stetson. I just accepted it was going to play out...like it has....and thought giving him the chance was the right thing to do. Common sense. But I've been attacked constantly by a group of posters, and sometimes personally, for thinking that way (and always "wrong"). Guess Wellman and Bz made people do that too.

He'll be gone at the end of this season. Wellman isn't a total moron...like you probably think.

1. You can choose what you want to believe but that choice has no bearing on what actually happened. I feel confident that reality is far closer to the view of most people on this board than yours.

2. IF what you believe is actually the case then Ron Wellman should have lost his job a long time ago.

 

[deaconson]

Regarding point 2. Wellman knew what the hire looked like from the outside. Maybe he had already spent a ton of capital convincing the BOT, Hatch and money people that this was a good hire. Maybe he knew the resume was sh!t for an ACC job. At the very beginning of this fiasco he went on record with "not trying to win the press conference" and "I went with my gut." He knew every one was going to question the hire. He just knew he was the smartest guy in the room and wake fans would smile knowingly as we said "in wellman i trust" while he pat us on our heads.

 

[PhDeac]

And a lot of Wake fans did just that.

 

[deacz]

I get your point, but...

1. [Y]ou have to believe Wellman doesn't have a high bar for Wake. I don't believe Wellman has a high enough bar for WFU basketball. Unlike many sports, we could win an NC. We should be top 20 most years. The last 3 years should never happen. And if they did, we should not have our intelligence insulted by the ridiculous bullshit Wellman spins about "historically competitive." If you want to understand the height of Wellman's bar, just think about all the implications of "historically competitive" for a while.

2. You have to believe there is no such thing as a Cinderella period for a coach. Sure I do. But the Cinderella period is partially conditioned on evidence of competence and the ability to make people understand and buy into the plan. Neither Wellman nor Buzz has come close to doing that. Wellman should have known that the Buzz hire would be widely questioned and either not do it (best) or at least have a logical and honest story about it.

3. You have to believe that Wellman is expected to back on his word to the new coach from whatever was said at the hire. If he said something at the hire (which was something Buzz probably never imagined would happen) that meant the last 3 years would be OK, that was a huge and unnecessary promise. I've made bad hires. I get that it can happen. But Wake doesn't owe Buzz any moral duty to try to spin him as something he's not or sacrifice results just so he won't have to face facts. I don't know what the general consensus would have been as far as the criteria for success when Buzz was hired, but I have a hard time believing he has met it.

4. You have to believe whatever problems plagued the new coach at the previous job had no chance of changing. In Buzz's case, yes, I believe this. I don't think Buzz was going to turn into John Wooden just because some watery tart threw a $M at him. In sum, Buzz should have never been hired. Everyone but Wellman (and maybe Buzz) knew that immediately. And even then no one expected it to be this bad.

5. You have to believe Wellman wasn't just throwing out AD-speak the past 3 years. I think Wellman is as bad at media and PR as one can be. He could have said different things, and still kept Buzz around. Rather, he tried to tell us the sky is green just so he wouldn't have to face the reality of this fiasco and, I guess, so Buzz wouldn't get his feelings hurt.

6. You have to believe Wellman was going to evaluate the new coach's performance at Wake based on his performance at the previous job. You don't get evaluated like do you? In my business- like most- no one with Buzz's performance history would get an interview for the very top positions, much less hired. So, no, I'm not evaluated by how I did at my last job, but I wouldn't have many opportunities if my "record" looked like Buzz's.

7. You also have to believe the program is now in ruins. I don't have enough insider information to know if it's all the way there, but it's in the vicinity. What I do know is that I (and seemingly quite a few others) have lost confidence in Wellman and interest in WFU basketball. I'm not going to invest my energy and time in something if it's not fun to watch and best-case is we one day sneak into the NCAA.

Wellman isn't a total moron...like you probably think. I don't think he's a total moron. But I give him a solid F in media and PR.

Domination.

 

[thedeacfan]

To get to that place you have to believe Wellman doesn't have a high bar for Wake.
...
...
He'll be gone at the end of this season. Wellman isn't a total moron...like you probably think.

So if Wellman keeps his crony hire around for a fifth year, even you will agree that our AD is "a total moron".
That's good to know.