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Will all the Bz Outers support Wake once his is gone, or.....

wakedeac98 said:
I've heard this for several weeks now and have repeatedly said on multiple threads, but will say it once again on this one.

It's all about money and donations. That's the primary factor driving Hatch and the BOT.

Giving has been down for the Deacon Club for several years now. But given the new ACC TV money and Ron's initial convincing of the Moracle boys things would be ok, Wellman was given a bigger leash with [Redacted].

Really??! That means that RW and his book-cooker Casstevens have been lying. I would most certainly like to see the shenanigans that those two have pulled exposed for the world to see.

Over time the animosity towards [Redacted] has increased steadily, and so has the anger/apathy towards Wake Forest. The result is that overall giving has been down, and this is most glaring with the initial response to Wake Will. Much of the feedback from the fundraising efforts has been "not until [Redacted] is gone".

Anybody that could not see this coming last year IS AN IDIOT!

The powers that be were much more tolerant of [Redacted] when he was compartmentalized into just a basketball or athletic problem. However it's become very apparent over the last 6-9 months that's it's affecting so much more than that. And that's something they just can't tolerate. It's one thing for [Redacted] to go wrecking ball on the hoops program, it's another for him to torpedo the school in general.

The really unfortunate thing is that it was apparently OK with "the powers that be" that Buzz and Ron took a wrecking ball to our flagship program. I LIVED for basketball season for over 30 years. Now I find out that the program that I was so personally vested in, the program that meant so much to me, was just so much garbage to "the powers that be". Garbage to the point that they had no problem throwing it in a dumpster and setting fire to it, and then letting it CONTINUE TO BURN FOR FOUR YEARS! But at some point, they are going to make a coaching change and I am going to be expected to trust them and reinvest myself. I just don't know how long it will be before I can trust these bastards enough to get back to where I was.

This goes above Wellman now and at this point he has basically been told game over.

I'm sure Baby has heard similar things.

The most irritating thing to me is it took 3.5 years for the "academics" at Wake to realize and admit the profound effect that athletics has over other parts of the school.
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PhDeac said:
I'd hesitate to call the administrators at a university the "academics."

In my experience, most administrators at universities tend to come from the academic side. To me, Hatch certainly qualifies as an "academic" so what point are you trying make?

I wish I could trust you, 98. These problems weren't hard to foresee. I don't believe they just assumed Bz wouldn't be an issue. I think it's more likely that thought we'd win under him and that would take care of itself.

Absolutely!

Do they realize it's much more than wins and losses? The Bz era makes me think about how many other incompetent people are drawing paychecks from Wake.

Exactly!
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:rulz:
 
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coredeac said:
Can you please expand upon this? What other factors are currently at play (i.e. player morale, big $$ pissed, Wellman on a short leash)?
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Money. That is the driving factor.

Big $$ gave the AD a long leash, trusted the message, found that wanting, and has become increasingly impatient. It has been quite clear that overall fan support for the program has been adversely impacted over the last four years. Look around the Joel on any given night, even for supposedly "big" games. It's just sad, really, thinking about where we were just a few years ago. Small-donor contributions have dropped significantly, but not enough to alter the commitment to the current situation given major-donor support. However, recently overall fundraising efforts have been impacted and the athletic situation in general, and the basketball program in particular, are frequently cited by donors declining to contribute, leading to support levels below expectation. Clearly, this negative impact is now being felt beyond the AD.

Player morale has never been a consideration. The players have not been happy, but that has not factored into consideration.

RW made the tough but correct call concerning Jim Grobe. He went "all in" on the football program at the beginning of the year, and it didnt work out as envisioned. It was handled with class and dignity, and a surprising number of folks bought the spin. (I guess I shouldnt be surprised, given how many have swallowed the "culture change" crap hook, line, and sinker.) Expect a similar approach at the end of the basketball season. With one year remaining, there needs to be an extension or a change.
 
hook, line and stinker.

thanks baby. hopefully we are approaching the end of this nightmare.

how is wellman viewed by those same people that bought in and are finally reevaluating all the bs wellman has been shoveling? is he being reigned in? is he on a short leash? will he be allowed to make a unilateral decision on a new coach with no input? with bz he was on record saying he keeps a list and made the call. with clawson it sounded like there were more people involved in the interview process.
 
wakedeac98 said:
I've heard this for several weeks now and have repeatedly said on multiple threads, but will say it once again on this one.

It's all about money and donations. That's the primary factor driving Hatch and the BOT.

Giving has been down for the Deacon Club for several years now. But given the new ACC TV money and Ron's initial convincing of the Moracle boys things would be ok, Wellman was given a bigger leash with [Redacted].

Over time the animosity towards [Redacted] has increased steadily, and so has the anger/apathy towards Wake Forest. The result is that overall giving has been down, and this is most glaring with the initial response to Wake Will. Much of the feedback from the fundraising efforts has been "not until [Redacted] is gone".

The powers that be were much more tolerant of [Redacted] when he was compartmentalized into just a basketball or athletic problem. However it's become very apparent over the last 6-9 months that's it's affecting so much more than that. And that's something they just can't tolerate. It's one thing for [Redacted] to go wrecking ball on the hoops program, it's another for him to torpedo the school in general.

This goes above Wellman now and at this point he has basically been told game over.

I'm sure Baby has heard similar things.

The most irritating thing to me is it took 3.5 years for the "academics" at Wake to realize and admit the profound effect that athletics has over other parts of the school.
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Believe me, I understand the rationale. Most of us on here have been saying those same things for 3+ years, yet nothing has changed. So what I am getting at is whether posts like yours (not an attack on you, just asking a question) are just more third-party assumptions like what everyone else on here has been saying for years of what the people in charge should be thinking, or if anyone knows for certain that now they actually are thinking that way.
 
Additionally, if it is now all about money and the powers that be are just now realizing that [Redacted] will single-handedly submarine the entire Wake Will campaign, why would they wait to fire him? If they know everybody hates the guy, what better way to re-energize the campaign and alumni than to shitcan the bastard now? It isn't like they would risk affecting a winning season.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Additionally, if it is now all about money and the powers that be are just now realizing that [Redacted] will single-handedly submarine the entire Wake Will campaign, why would they wait to fire him? If they know everybody hates the guy, what better way to re-energize the campaign and alumni than to shitcan the bastard now? It isn't like they would risk affecting a winning season.
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I see two options here. First, if we plan to keep the pompous asshole we refer to as an AD, I think we have to keep Buzz until after the season so as to provide some continuity (as if any is left) for the program and also not send a very negative signal to prospective coaches because they will have to eventually work for the pompous jackass. We know he's crazy but you don't want the entire coaching world knowing it beyond a shadow of doubt.

Second option. If we plan to fire, or force the resignation of, the pompous asshole we refer to as an AD, then I think you could just about clean house anytime you wish given that it appears our major fund raising campaign is going to hell in a hand-basket. It would simply signal to the coaching world we're starting with a clean slate and the coach would have an entirely new boss with no baggage or agenda.

No way in hell the second option happens given how much Wellman has fooled the entire BOT and administrators. Let's hope, at a minimum, the first option occurs in 40+ days!

Just my 2 cents.
 
I think the million dollar question is 'Will Wellman be back?' Because I hope like hell I'm correct in assuming Buzz is 100% outta here. And the powers that be take out Ronnie for bringing WF the Buzzdoggle we have lived with for the last 4 years.
 
I'm feeling better about my decision not to support "Wake Will". I'm not Flow, but I would consider my annual College fund donation "significant". Babydeac and others seem to be talking about people like me, when thay say that Hatch and the BOT are concerned about the money vis-a-vis Bzzzz.
 
Doesn't really matter. I think universities as we know them won't exist in a couple hundred years. There are better ways to donate your money in my opinion.
 
DirkTheDeac said:
Doesn't really matter. I think universities as we know them won't exist in a couple hundred years. There are better ways to donate your money in my opinion.
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I've heard a lot of reasons for not donating to a school, but this is a first. You realize that Wake isn't even a couple hundred years old, and that universities now are very different than in 1834, right?
 
PhDeac said:
I'd hesitate to call the administrators at a university the "academics."

I wish I could trust you, 98. These problems weren't heard to foresee. I don't believe they just assumed Bz wouldn't be an issue. I think it's more likely that thought we'd win under him and that would take care of itself.

Do they realize it's much more than wins and losses? The Bz era makes me think about how many other incompetent people are drawing paychecks from Wake.
Click to expand...

Isn't Hatch a former History professor?
 
Dino Gaudino said:
Isn't Hatch a former History professor?
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Religion. He's one of many administrators at Wake.

Two points. First, deans, provosts, etc in the academic side didn't get promoted from professors to administration. They choose to take that route and not do the full load of teaching and research which are the main jobs of academics.

Second, presidents and the administrators mentioned above are some of the few that have been professors. A lot of administrators don't have academic backgrounds and probably got an MA in a higher ed administration or related field.

The jobs at a university break down to faculty, staff, and administrators. The comment above referred to administrators and staff with probably little faculty input. I doubt the people who teach and research are the ones who decided Wake Will would be fine with the current state of athletics.
 
PhDeac said:
Religion. He's one of many administrators at Wake.

Two points. First, deans, provosts, etc in the academic side didn't get promoted from professors to administration. They choose to take that route and not do the full load of teaching and research which are the main jobs of academics.

Second, presidents and the administrators mentioned above are some of the few that have been professors. A lot of administrators don't have academic backgrounds and probably got an MA in a higher ed administration or related field.

The jobs at a university break down to faculty, staff, and administrators. The comment above referred to administrators and staff with probably little faculty input. I doubt the people who teach and research are the ones who decided Wake Will would be fine with the current state of athletics.
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Speaking of Wake Will, I talked to several people in the past month who are in the Black and Gold Society and above and they said they won't contribute anything to the project until [Redacted] resigns/gets fired. Granted, the spectrum of opinions on the state of the athletic department ranges quite a bit in the higher levels of the DC, but it's not a complete surprise these people are making such a statement with their money.
 
If somebody can publicly fail for four years and make I've $1M, who at awake is failing in the shadows for how long making how much?
 
PhDeac said:
If somebody can publicly fail for four years and make I've $1M, who at awake is failing in the shadows for how long making how much?
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This is how we know rj has hacked into your system.
 
Damn autocorrect.
 
RacerDeac said:
I've heard a lot of reasons for not donating to a school, but this is a first. You realize that Wake isn't even a couple hundred years old, and that universities now are very different than in 1834, right?
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You are familiar with the University of Phoenix, right? I happen to think education as we know it today will be very different in two hundred years. The reason it has been the same for hundreds of years is very simple.
 
DirkTheDeac said:
You are familiar with the University of Phoenix, right? I happen to think education as we know it today will be very different in two hundred years. The reason it has been the same for hundreds of years is very simple.
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I mean, to be fair, things in general were pretty fucking different in 1814, postsecondary education included, so this isn't a huge leap of faith.
 
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