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Willing to take on a few Hoops Bets @ 17.5

Jaybone - improvement does not signify competent coaching ability. In order to be a competent college coach, this insinuates that you are at least above average. Is Bz better than 50% of the college head coaches out there? If not he is not a competent coach. I would say Bz's record is an objective indicator that he is a poor coach. What's worse, is that he has accomplished almost nothing at two BCS conference schools. If you put Bz at a school with less recruiting advantages he would do even worse. For example, imagine Bz at UNC Wilmington. The talent level he would be dealing with would be even worse, rendering his already ineffective coaching style even more ineffective.

I think fans often have the misconception that if you are coaching at a big time university that you are a competent coach. Nothing could be further from the truth. Some of the best on the court coaches are employed by schools you have never heard of. Coach Byrd at Belmont was a GREAT coach for the past 30 years, but it is only in the last 5 that he has garnered some national attention. Does this mean he just became a good coach? Absolutely not. Landing a big time job in the college coaching profession is more about momentum than coaching. There are plenty of great coaches that never received a shot to coach at a big time university, and that is because of chance and momentum. One big win in March and some school is going to pay you 2 million dollars to coach and give you a jet to recruit in.

By every object measurable statistic in the last 7 years Bz has been a complete failure in every aspect of coaching college basketball. The fact that some of the freshman on our team matured and because better sophomores has much more to do with the natural growth process of a teenage basketball player and less to do with Bz. We are in line for another horrid season, and the only reason we have a chance to win more games than we lose is because we scheduled it that way. Any attempt to defend Bz as a coach is completely irrational.
 
jaybone said:
I think he is a competent basketball coach but that's his ceiling
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I generally give you the benefit of the doubt but this is a stretch. He could be a capable assistant again but as a head coach... he sucks.
 
2-5? (I lost track) is definitely a sign of competence.

I would agree that where he is now or maybe SLIGHTLY above is his ceiling, and is why he should never have been our coach.
 
jaybone said:
I have a hunch we are going to get there and get there via two road wins though when I look at it logically it seems we will be at 16 wins heading down to Miami. It would certainly be fun to be at 17 heading down to Miami for at least four of us though
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Speak for yourself. I'd be very happy to still have just the 14 wins going into the Miami game. Instead of wasting time watching the game, I could spend the time shopping for my new yacht... :thumbsup:
 
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jaybone is only making these ridiculous arguments because he is too proud to admit how horrifically wrong he was about [Redacted].


This isn't about [Redacted] even being a competent coach. This is simply about jaybone not willing to admit that he doesn't know as much about basketball as he claims to know. Period.
 
deacvision7 said:
jaybone is only making these ridiculous arguments because he is too proud to admit how horrifically wrong he was about [Redacted].


This isn't about [Redacted] even being a competent coach. This is simply about jaybone not willing to admit that he doesn't know as much about basketball as he claims to know. Period.
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Eh, as dumb as his posts today have been, he did admit how insane the "100 wins in 5 years" prediction was.
 
Buzz might be a competent coach in the NBA, but he isn't a competent college coach.
 
Well, he can't argue against actual numbers, but he is still trying to put forth the argument that [Redacted] isn't a horrible head coach in a desperate attempt to save what little face he has left on this matter.
 
jaybone said:
I think he is a competent basketball coach but that's his ceiling
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In what world is he competent. There isn't a single objective tool by which you can evaluate him where he is competent.
 
Wrangor said:
In what world is he competent. There isn't a single objective tool by which you can evaluate him where he is competent.
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Vague bullshit filled with undefinable platitudes does the trick in jaybone's esteemed opinion.
 
Competence is a low bar. I mean, I have not seen one minute of practice. All I can judge is by what I see on TV, and I circle back to I like the team. As many have said, it is missing one NBA caliber player. I don't think Bzd can recruit that player, but that is what the team is missing. They play hard, pass well, are generally a low turnover team. We box out horrifically. Guys like Rountree who should be great at boxing out are bad at it. That's on the staff.

Anyway, I enjoy rooting for this team, this collection of players and they have a lot of eligibility left. Based on what I see on the court, Bzd shows basic competence at coaching. Has nothing to do with me saving face. I have egg, shit, tar, feathers all over it. That's all true. My heart rate just went up 1 beat per minute admitting that.

But based on what I see on the court, we have a shot at 18. I ain't conceding quite yet. I understand it is a bit of a catch-22 for those that are just ready for a coaching change so badly they can taste it. And I suppose it is possible that 18 or 17 or whatever get Bzd one more year which is a valid reason to root against the team over the next few weeks. But I can't help myself. Bet aside, I just can't quit this team ;-)
 
jaybone, have you offered examples of awful coaches yet? how low does your bar go?
 
bigdoublezero said:
jaybone, have you offered examples of awful coaches yet? how low does your bar go?
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Quickly without doing any research, there are two types of awful coaches in my mind. First set would be coaches who felt they had to cheat to win and/or had no scrupples. Obviously, Dave Bliss at Baylor would define that type of coach. And you could run that down to Mark Gottfried at Bama. Obviously banging a coed is lower on the list of awful things than covering up a murder, but you get the point. Mike Rice at Rutgers would be on the list.

Then, you have your coaches with god awful records. I would try and find guys whose record got continuously worse as their tenure wore on. Bob Wade seems to be the guy you could point to the most. I think Derek Wittenberg at Fordham went 5-35 over his last 40 before he was fired. There are a lot of former players that become coaches that shouldn't.

When I was in college I remember thinking that Cliff Ellis coached teams at Clemson were remarkably poorly coached considering their NBA talent. But then every year, they'd be pretty fresh by the end of the season and do well in tournaments. I never could figure that out, whether the team just figured out how to play together on their own after 25 games or maybe Ellis was so laissez faire that they played with less pressure on their backs than their opponents come tourney time. I know his Auburn team beat us in the NCAA tournament and they didn't run an offense, just ran it down the court and jacked it up. They did have Marquis Daniels, but we had Josh. It would have driven me crazy to have him as our coach but he did have intermitten success.

So there's my convoluted answer.
 
jaybone said:
Competence is a low bar.
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No it is not. Competence means that you can do the job you are hired to do. Jeff [Redacted] cannot. He can't recruit, he can't coach, he can't speak properly to the media, and he actual hurts fund raising. That is not competence.
 
One of your awful coaches is a guy who made the tournament, whereas Bz is "competent" and he never does? Convoluted indeed.
 
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