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Willing to take on a few Hoops Bets @ 17.5

jaybone may have had a stroke. He is making absolutely zero sense.

Jeff [Redacted] is about to have seven consecutive seasons in major conference college basketball wihout even getting close to a post season bid, but to jaybone those numbers support him being a good basketball coach.
 
ChrisL68 said:
The man is trying to avoid his 7th consecutive sub .500 season at a major conference school.

And you can't make the argument that he is a bad basketball coach?

The only success he has ever had at the college level was falling into a situation of experienced stacked talent. And a couple of years after he left, that program fell off the map because he didn't bring in any talent.

The overwhelming evidence is that he is a bad college basketball coach.
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Ron put 7 OOC cupcakes on the schedule (all at home!) to try to avoid Buzz's 7th straight losing season, and it still looks like it's gonna be close!
 
Yeah [Redacted] is a slight favorite over seven cupcakes to eek out a winning season. That about sums it up.
 
jaybone said:
This is why so many Buzz outers are the lunatic fringe. You cannot logically make the argument that Bzd is an awful basketball coach or awful in game or late game coach. Because facts and numbes don't back that up. We won 8 games the first year, then 13, 13 and this year probably 16+. That shows an improved trajectory. Based on numbers, it is silly to argue that he's a horrible basketball coach.
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Wait, what? This is legendary...OGB Hall of Fame worthy. Well done.

Holy hell, just when I thought this thread couldn't get any better.
 
So if you start awful enough and make easy improvement, it shows you are a good coach. I guess if he started out with 20 wins it would've really been tough to exhibit how great he is the following years.
 
TheIshThatSaved WakeForest said:
So if you start awful enough and make easy improvement, it shows you are a good coach. I guess if he started out with 20 wins it would've really been tough to exhibit how great he is the following years.
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That damn Coach K guy almost never shows any appreciable improvement...hack.
 
jaybone said:
This is why so many Buzz outers are the lunatic fringe. You cannot logically make the argument that Bzd is an awful basketball coach or awful in game or late game coach. Because facts and numbes don't back that up. We won 8 games the first year, then 13, 13 and this year probably 16+. That shows an improved trajectory. Based on numbers, it is silly to argue that he's a horrible basketball coach.

What is easy to argue or worthy of discussion is what is Bzd's ceiling? And is he a worthy leader of an ACC program. The answer to the later is no as he just doesn't pull off all the non-basketball stuff you pay a head coach to be able to handle without much trouble - a radio show for example. The answer to the first question seems to be a borderline NCAA tournament program. That is a step back from what we are used and two steps back from where we'd like to be.

It would be great if the billboard collective approached the argument from that logical angle. But I see more "I wish Bzd would die" posts than I do worthy arguments.

But RJ is wrong on this as he has been for a while - you can't be immediately opposed to the Bzd hire and not own the fact that we made it somewhat more difficult for him to succeed recruiting and otherwise. Add to that Bzd is not a personality that takes loathing well ;-) It's a bit of a catch-22. If Bzd had been Skip's right hand man instead of Dino I wonder how the last six or seven years would have played out. Would he have maintained the program? Would we have been more forgiving of his personality faults/traits? Don't know. He needs to be gone though and I would hope an experienced team with two years of eligibility left plus a bunch of schollies to give out after that would be enticing to a young talented coach.
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Wakeforest22890 said:
What are the numbers that back up [Redacted] being a good college basketball coach? Is it his career 158-174 overall record? Is it his two winning seasons in ten total years as a head coach? Is it his 46-94 overall conference record? Is it his three conference road wins in the last seven years?

What exactly is it that makes him a good head college basketball coach by the numbers JayBone?

You're right though, there are no numbers that show he's a bad coach.

Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif
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Hmmm. Find the post in this thread where I say he's a good college basketball coach. That's not what I'm saying.
 
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TheIshThatSaved WakeForest said:
So if you start awful enough and make easy improvement, it shows you are a good coach. I guess if he started out with 20 wins it would've really been tough to exhibit how great he is the following years.
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This is pretty much BKF's argument against Skip, actually.
 
Look, This is all I am going to say today on this, but are we better off today than we were the day bzd was hired? Is the class of Tabb, JT, Tony, Carson a better class with better character than the current sophomore class?

Again, I am not arguing that Bzd is the coach we should have come March 15th and I do not think he can lead any program to a place where they are a consistent tourney team with ability to get to the Sweet 16 and beyond every year. I don't think he's that guy. I didn't think so on March 15th last year. But he ain't horrible. That's a low bar and he passes it.

I don't believe in Wellman like I used to but he made a hell of a hire a few months back which rekindled by desire to give him the benefit of the doubt. He wouldn't hire a horrible basketball coach. All the NBA hall of famers who gave a line or two about what a good scout/coach/guy he was and who employed him for years and years weren't completely blowing smoke up our ass. Bzd has fulfilled certain mandates that had little to nothing to do with winning and losing games. This year, he is going to win more than he lost, which is an improvement over last year. If he were to be kept on next year, I fully expect him to win more then than he will this year. A lot of that will be due, obviously, to the experience of our current sophmore class, and the expectations I have from Shelton, McClinton, and I suppose Green.

Remember when a lot of you had your panties all in a bunch because Bzd wouldn't pursue Lewis as our point guard and instead gave a schollie to a stock is falling Codi Miller Mack? Bzd has a few skills and one of them I think is being a good judge of talent. That said, you can't build a tourney team on under appreciated 3stars, period.

bottom line I like this team. I loathed the team four years ago and not because we won 8 games. We were basketball stupid and that was not going to change. Those were errors in recruiting, period. Tabb? Come on.

Dude still needs to go. There are probably a hundred hires out there that could improve on where we are going under Bzd, I believe. I hope we hire one of them, but I just can't follow the bandwagon that says this guy, who inherited a horrific program at Colorado than I think won 6 games the year before he was hired and made steady if not dynamic improvement and did the same here is a terrible basketball coach because in watching about 95% of our games over the last four years, I just don't see it.
 
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The day Bz was hired, we were coming off an NCAA 2nd round appearance.
 
PhDeac said:
The day Bz was hired, we were coming off an NCAA 2nd round appearance.
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And were on the map nationally and hence should have gotten great recruits in Buzz's first recruiting class. Instead, we got Chase Fischer, Anthony Fields, and Daniel Green (WEEEEEEEEEEE!). Now we are completely irrelevant with potentially 2 unranked recruits coming in next year. And don't call the sophomore class "underappreciated" 3-stars. Seriously? Devin may be the only one who was underappreciated. The others were exactly who the scouts thought they were. Heck, some like Rountree and Washington were probably overrated 3-stars. The idea that we're better off now than when Dino was fired is fucking laughable.

jaybone's argument is just so unbelievably wrong.
 
woody9186 said:
And were on the map nationally and hence should have gotten great recruits in Buzz's first recruiting class. Instead, we got Chase Fischer, Anthony Fields, and Daniel Green (WEEEEEEEEEEE!). Now we are completely irrelevant with potentially 2 unranked recruits coming in next year. And don't call the sophomore class "underappreciated" 3-stars. Seriously? Devin may be the only one who was underappreciated. The others were exactly who the scouts thought they were. Heck, some like Rountree and Washington were probably overrated 3-stars. The idea that we're better off now than when Dino was fired is fucking laughable.

jaybone's argument is just so unbelievably wrong.
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The idea that the 2010-11 season represents where we were after Dino was fired makes no sense. That's where we were after Bz had been the head coach for 11 months.
 
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