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Willing to take on a few Hoops Bets @ 17.5

Jay, do you have more bets this year over last year's total?
 
This is why so many Buzz outers are the lunatic fringe. You cannot logically make the argument that Bzd is an awful basketball coach or awful in game or late game coach. Because facts and numbes don't back that up. We won 8 games the first year, then 13, 13 and this year probably 16+. That shows an improved trajectory. Based on numbers, it is silly to argue that he's a horrible basketball coach.

What is easy to argue or worthy of discussion is what is Bzd's ceiling? And is he a worthy leader of an ACC program. The answer to the later is no as he just doesn't pull off all the non-basketball stuff you pay a head coach to be able to handle without much trouble - a radio show for example. The answer to the first question seems to be a borderline NCAA tournament program. That is a step back from what we are used and two steps back from where we'd like to be.

It would be great if the billboard collective approached the argument from that logical angle. But I see more "I wish Bzd would die" posts than I do worthy arguments.

But RJ is wrong on this as he has been for a while - you can't be immediately opposed to the Bzd hire and not own the fact that we made it somewhat more difficult for him to succeed recruiting and otherwise. Add to that Bzd is not a personality that takes loathing well ;-) It's a bit of a catch-22. If Bzd had been Skip's right hand man instead of Dino I wonder how the last six or seven years would have played out. Would he have maintained the program? Would we have been more forgiving of his personality faults/traits? Don't know. He needs to be gone though and I would hope an experienced team with two years of eligibility left plus a bunch of schollies to give out after that would be enticing to a young talented coach.
 
RJKarl said:
Jay, do you have more bets this year over last year's total?
Click to expand...

I don't think I had any bets last year as I had no idea how the frosh would play out so I didn't take any. It was two years ago I won $300 plus a bottle of scotch (I think those were the numbers). So assuming I win the PHDeac bet, I think I will totally break even and just be up a bottle of scotch (assuming I lose the 17.5 bets)
 
You can't argue someone is awful because they are less awful than they were 3 seasons ago?

That makes no sense.
 
jaybone said:
I don't think I had any bets last year as I had no idea how the frosh would play out so I didn't take any. It was two years ago I won $300 plus a bottle of scotch (I think those were the numbers). So assuming I win the PHDeac bet, I think I will totally break even and just be up a bottle of scotch (assuming I lose the 17.5 bets)
Click to expand...

The vig ....
 
jaybone said:
This is why so many Buzz outers are the lunatic fringe. You cannot logically make the argument that Bzd is an awful basketball coach. Because facts and numbes don't back that up. We won 8 games the first year, then 13, 13 and this year probably 16+. That shows an improved trajectory. Based on numbers, it is silly to argue that he's a horrible basketball coach.
Click to expand...

Is this serious? Let's remove the 2011 season because that was a complete outlier. That team didn't have much of a chance from the get go. So from there [Redacted] started bringing in his own guys. Let's remove teams ranked worse than 150 from the equation because those are basically just cupcakes that any "major conference" team beats on a regular basis, with the very occasional loss.

In 2012, Wake went 3-14 against top 150 teams. In 2013, Wake went 7-17 against top 150 teams. This year so far, Wake is 6-10 with seven games left against top 150 teams. We're on pace to go 8-15 without the ACCT game against top 150 teams.

Here's the record pre-[Redacted] going back to 2003 against these teams:

2003: 20-6
2004: 15-10
2005: 22-6
2006: 9-15 (aka BKF's "worst coaching job/year/season ever")
2007: 9-15
2008: 10-13
2009: 16-7
2010: 14-11

Then 2011, who I guess isn't really attributed to anybody for the benefit of the doubt to Bzz: 2-21 (just ridiculous)

So [Redacted]'s best year is projected to be this year and we're projected to go 8-15 against top 150 teams. That's worse than any single season pre-[Redacted] since 2003. It's worse than the 2006 and 2007 teams which people on here have said were Wake's worst seasons since like 1990.

Plenty of numbers show that [Redacted] is a bad coach. What numbers or facts back up that [Redacted] is a good basketball coach? Where are those numbers? Or are those the "Fictional sources" that [Redacted] was talking about in his interview the other day?
 
Hell without the rest of the year complete, [Redacted] has already lost 62 games against top 150 teams as Wake's head coach. In the previous eight years, Wake only lost 85 total and that's with two seasons (2006 and 2007) which again people say we were awful.
 
Close games against teams that were missing their best players, wins over cupcakes, a win over Richmond where we were getting soundly beat until their best player gets injured in the game- no way you can credibly argue Bz is a good coach based on this season. Bz, and you, have been very lucky in terms of the schedule and our opponents missing key players.
 
PhDeac said:
You can't argue someone is awful because they are less awful than they were 3 seasons ago?

That makes no sense.
Click to expand...

Huh? I'm arguing that he is not an awful basketball coach. He wasn't three years ago and he ain't now. The numbers back that up.

But it is a silly stupid discussion that really becomes a dog chasing his tail. Yes, his unexpected hire three years and the fanbase's immediate reaction made it more difficult for him. Add to that all the chaos directly before and after he was hired that led us to lose players. But all of it no longer matters. In Year 4, is it time to go or not? The fact that he has gotten better every year might give Wellman cover to give him a 5th year. I worry that is the case because I have a hunch just about any Div 1 coach or second in command could get this team into the NCAAs next year baring major injury or transfer.
 
What are the numbers that back up [Redacted] being a good college basketball coach? Is it his career 158-174 overall record? Is it his two winning seasons in ten total years as a head coach? Is it his 46-94 overall conference record? Is it his three conference road wins in the last seven years?

What exactly is it that makes him a good head college basketball coach by the numbers JayBone?

You're right though, there are no numbers that show he's a bad coach.

Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif
 
jaybone said:
This is why so many Buzz outers are the lunatic fringe. You cannot logically make the argument that Bzd is an awful basketball coach or awful in game or late game coach. Because facts and numbes don't back that up. We won 8 games the first year, then 13, 13 and this year probably 16+. That shows an improved trajectory. Based on numbers, it is silly to argue that he's a horrible basketball coach.

What is easy to argue or worthy of discussion is what is Bzd's ceiling? And is he a worthy leader of an ACC program. The answer to the later is no as he just doesn't pull off all the non-basketball stuff you pay a head coach to be able to handle without much trouble - a radio show for example. The answer to the first question seems to be a borderline NCAA tournament program. That is a step back from what we are used and two steps back from where we'd like to be.

It would be great if the billboard collective approached the argument from that logical angle. But I see more "I wish Bzd would die" posts than I do worthy arguments.

But RJ is wrong on this as he has been for a while - you can't be immediately opposed to the Bzd hire and not own the fact that we made it somewhat more difficult for him to succeed recruiting and otherwise. Add to that Bzd is not a personality that takes loathing well ;-) It's a bit of a catch-22. If Bzd had been Skip's right hand man instead of Dino I wonder how the last six or seven years would have played out. Would he have maintained the program? Would we have been more forgiving of his personality faults/traits? Don't know. He needs to be gone though and I would hope an experienced team with two years of eligibility left plus a bunch of schollies to give out after that would be enticing to a young talented coach.
Click to expand...

Dude... Michael Sam won't be any less gay because he sucks 12 dicks in 2014 as opposed to the 16 he sucked in 2013
 
Why wasn't he an awful basketball coach 3 years ago? Of course he was.
 
The man is trying to avoid his 7th consecutive sub .500 season at a major conference school.

And you can't make the argument that he is a bad basketball coach?

The only success he has ever had at the college level was falling into a situation of experienced stacked talent. And a couple of years after he left, that program fell off the map because he didn't bring in any talent.

The overwhelming evidence is that he is a bad college basketball coach.
 
Guys, there are no numbers out there that show [Redacted] is a bad coach.

It's just mere happenstance that he hasn't had a single winning season in the last seven years!
 
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